Knee Pain. Educate Me Please. Doc said nada.

[afm199]

Rest is always good for knee injuries. When I reinjured my right knee in a crash, eventually it took the better part of a year for the pain and disability to go away. I took it easy on it. If you're smart, stay off it and learn new routines. I don't think you will find one orthopod who recommends squats. The knee was never designed for them.

 

[dagle]

i might get hell for this since everyone's an expert on lifting (including myself of course ) but great squat form isn't something that can be spotted by someone at the gym just because they can squat heavy weights. If you're a oly/power lifting coach, strongman coach, fitness trainer, etc. then perhaps, but people are different sizes and bend different ways. I can squat ass to grass with my knees directly over my toes the entire time and have zero joint pain, but I also know that if I position my feet a little bit inward or outward out of my "groove" that I can feel my knees tense up and want to buckle on the struggle reps. Feel for the knees when you're doing the movement and don't faithfully believe others (consider it, question it, then make certain that's the right choice for you etc.)

For me, at 20 years old (I'm ancient!) I have quite a few annoying joint ailments that most of my peers probably don't have. sprained my wrists and fractured those bones more times than I can count when I wrestled, same with ankles, etc. I found that glucosamine, and a healthy intake of omega fats has helped tremendously to combat joint discomfort while still trying to build strength. squatting 2x+ bodyweight ass to grass is still nerveracking, but at the bottom of the movement it feels good and as if i'm within a comfortable range of motion. but YMMV (your mileage may vary) from mine

 

[m_asim]

Also losing weight would help as it will put less strain on the knees.

I know you are itching for excercise but it would be better if you lay off squats and running for at least two months. Pick up swimming instead.

 

[Dubbington]

UPDATE 10/4/2011

Very Very slight meniscus tear. Doc said he doesnt want to see me again meaning surgery is not necessary even though he seemed very eager and liked telling about how he would do it. He said continue the anti-inflammatory meds. He wanted to do a cortizone shot but I was worried that I wouldnt feel any pain and would go lift heavy again. The Xrays and MRI showed a really good knee he said and very good ligaments and tendons.....mind you I've been squatting heavy and going passed parallel where my butt almost touches the ground.

Anyone have a meniscus tear? What was your rehab like?

I've read strengthening the quad is key as there are not way to work the meniscus. A friend of mine tore her ACL and avoided surgery. She picked up cycling and bikram yoga and is good go and now crossfits and snowboards.

 

[Melissa]

I had my acl blown out during my last rugby match against some amazons from Rochester,had it repaired using a piece of my patela tendon and once I felt well enough I started refereeing some of the women's matches. It wasn't until that season that my miniscus tore! I then has it repaired and my knee is doing great. As long as I keep in good physical condition it gives me no trouble but when I get lazy and replace my gym time with BARFing, och! My knee pain brings me back to the gym.
I did most of my rehab in the pool. Start with one of those kick boards and help your leg achieve strength. Good luck.

 

[Bassem]

UPDATE 10/4/2011

Very Very slight meniscus tear. Doc said he doesnt want to see me again meaning surgery is not necessary even though he seemed very eager and liked telling about how he would do it. He said continue the anti-inflammatory meds. He wanted to do a cortizone shot but I was worried that I wouldnt feel any pain and would go lift heavy again. The Xrays and MRI showed a really good knee he said and very good ligaments and tendons.....mind you I've been squatting heavy and going passed parallel where my butt almost touches the ground.

Anyone have a meniscus tear? What was your rehab like?

I've read strengthening the quad is key as there are not way to work the meniscus. A friend of mine tore her ACL and avoided surgery. She picked up cycling and bikram yoga and is good go and now crossfits and snowboards.

Miniscus tear in my left knee - grade 2 acl sprains of both knees... amongst other shitty injuries.

All I can say is work on your mechanics. Check your loading patterns, movements, etc... preferably with a coach who knows what he/she's doing.

 

[afm199]

meniscus is cartilage, you can't repair or regrow it, all the surgery does is trim it and remove danglers.

Strengthen quads with STRAIGHT leg lifts, start 20 pounds or so and work your way up. STOP DOING SQUATS and stop doing knee bend exercises, unless you want more joint problems. Once that meniscus is torn, it's only going to tear more in the future. I've had good luck rehabbing, but it's not really rehab, it's just strengthen the muscles to work around the meniscus.

FWIW I ran competitively with a torn meniscus for years, at a sub 6 minute mile pace. I stopped competitive running for other reasons, like getting old and foot problems. However, I certainly don't recommend running. It's hard on your legs and feet.

 

[yella600rr]

I'm 44 and my doc says my knee xrays look that of a 65 year old.

Knee pain sucks when walking down stairs or down hill. Life requires me to keep walking so I keep doing it.

 

[Lovedoc]

Don't squat, you don't think Olympians with perfect form have knee problems? Weight training, even done right usually wears joints prematurely.

Don't get cortisone shots unless you have advanced joint damage already, even then be careful. An active person is risking ligament strength among other things.

 

[yella600rr]

Don't squat, you don't think Olympians with perfect form have knee problems? Weight training, even done right usually wears joints prematurely.

Don't get cortisone shots unless you have advanced joint damage already, even then be careful. An active person is risking ligament strength among other things.

Dr. Hanson gave me an injection of pain medication and cortisone shots in both knees because they had lots of inflammation. Then prescribed me a unloader knee brace for my right knee to save the wear and tear on what cartilage I still have.

I just finished the 3 injection series for Orthovisc on both knees.

The goal is to keep me walking without an assistance device until knee replacement age.

I'm working on losing 20 lbs of extra weight that will help reduce unneeded wear and tear on my knees.

I also need to do a better job on keeping up with the knee rehab strengthening exercises.

 

[Dubbington]

Don't squat, you don't think Olympians with perfect form have knee problems? Weight training, even done right usually wears joints prematurely.

Don't get cortisone shots unless you have advanced joint damage already, even then be careful. An active person is risking ligament strength among other things.

It's a hotly debated topic about squats and knee pain. I didnt hurt my knee via squatting BUT from bad and over doing in on the rowing machine

The Olympic lifters I know do not have knee pain and are lifting 6 days a week sometimes twice a day and go for personal records every friday. Form is huge! I havent read research, only posts from experience that even with meniscus tears, there is no pain in squats. Actually, going below parallel is better as its full range of motion and allows the bounce at the bottom instead of trying to stop the weight at 90. I dont have pain when I squat as I have good form and have the proper shoes to assist in form. I get a little zing in twisting stuff. But sprinting is fine, jumping is fine. I plan on doing more research in oly and powerlifting with meniscus problems before I ramp things up.

Dont get me wrong though, Ive been taking it easy since July 1st and its been killing me. Squats and cleans I'm probably 50% or less at my max. Deadlifts I still go all out BUT deads create mass and do not promote explosive form.

 

[mike23w]

Don't squat, you don't think Olympians with perfect form have knee problems? Weight training, even done right usually wears joints prematurely.

dubbs, not going to listen. the consequences of squatting heavy have already been hammered to death.

 

[Kim]

Huh i wonder if that's what my knee problem is. A meniscus tear? I can walk and run just fine. But after a month it hurts to kneel and squat. And feels "spongey" when I either jump or am going up and down stairs. Haven't gone to the doctors cause I don't want to waste money to have them tell me there's nothing you can do.

 

[Lovedoc]

Dr. Hanson gave me an injection of pain medication and cortisone shots in both knees because they had lots of inflammation. Then prescribed me a unloader knee brace for my right knee to save the wear and tear on what cartilage I still have.

I just finished the 3 injection series for Orthovisc on both knees.

The goal is to keep me walking without an assistance device until knee replacement age.

I'm working on losing 20 lbs of extra weight that will help reduce unneeded wear and tear on my knees.

I also need to do a better job on keeping up with the knee rehab strengthening exercises.

Orthovisc is harmless at worst. The steroids effectively halt inflammation but damage the cartilage in the joint too. The inflammation also damages the joint cartilage too, so its a question of which is worse. Judicious steroid use to delay joint replacement and improve comfort in a damaged knee is pretty standard care.

T, where you keeping twenty extra pounds, maybe you're keeping spare chains in your pocket?

 

[rsrider]

The meniscus in my right knee blew out. So far nothing horrible except the occasional pain. The Dr. said arthritis is certain. So I have that to look forward to.

 

[m_asim]

The meniscus in my right knee blow out. So far nothing horrible except the occasional pain. The Dr. said arthritis is certain. So I have that to look forward to.

This. Once the meniscus is torn, you WILL end up getting arthritis in the knee.

Oakland Lion, as long as your limbs were in alignment, there is no way in hell you can get meniscus tears from rowing (I am assuming you used a Concept 2 rower prevalent in CF gyms).

This is my biggest pet peeve with Crossfit. The HQ people let any Tom, Dick or Harry take level 1 exam and open a gym. As long as coach gets his cut, he does not care how many people get destroyed by bad coaching :|

 

[yella600rr]

Orthovisc is harmless at worst. The steroids effectively halt inflammation but damage the cartilage in the joint too. The inflammation also damages the joint cartilage too, so its a question of which is worse. Judicious steroid use to delay joint replacement and improve comfort in a damaged knee is pretty standard care.

T, where you keeping twenty extra pounds, maybe you're keeping spare chains in your pocket?

I'm lucky that extra weight spreads evenly over my entire body! Lately though my middle section is getting too large for my current pant size.

My son summed it up the other day, "Mommy I think your pants are too small!" :|

 

[Dr. Evil]

I dont have pain when I squat as I have good form and have the proper shoes to assist in form.

Do it barefoot. Practice with lighter weights so you can focus on driving through your heels. I had a huge problem with it because I did martial arts for ten years, where you do EVERYTHING on the balls of your feet. Lifting through the balls caused me some temporary knee problems which have since cleared up.

 

[Dubbington]

This. Once the meniscus is torn, you WILL end up getting arthritis in the knee.

Oakland Lion, as long as your limbs were in alignment, there is no way in hell you can get meniscus tears from rowing (I am assuming you used a Concept 2 rower prevalent in CF gyms).

This is my biggest pet peeve with Crossfit. The HQ people let any Tom, Dick or Harry take level 1 exam and open a gym. As long as coach gets his cut, he does not care how many people get destroyed by bad coaching :|

If you google 'knee pain' so many results come up related to crossfit its scary. You are correct that generally form and proper technique is not as important as reps and time for them.

I did use a concept 2 rower but one at my 24 hour fitness. I was doing some circuit stuff and would strap my feet in so they wouldnt move and then pound out 800-1000 meters BUT really bring my knees to my chest.

 

[Wormwood]

Use it or lose it.

Pain becomes relative over time, work with a PT, find your range and work related surrounding supportive muscles.

You can make it stronger and less painful with a combo of surgery if needed and PT.