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[Volcomism]

This. I've worked in the industry before. Motherfuckers get paid regardless. Don't let them bullshit you.

Maybe the big name acts get paid regardless but I know that's not the case for us on independent labels. We got paid $0.03 off every album we sold, plus merch, plus gigs. Each quarter I still get a royalty check of around $9.00 . So stop stealing my money fuckers!

 

[Kornholio]

Maybe the big name acts get paid regardless but I know that's not the case for us on independent labels. We got paid $0.03 off every album we sold, plus merch, plus gigs. Each quarter I still get a royalty check of around $9.00 . So stop stealing my money fuckers!

I did studio musician gigs. I got paid regardless!

 

[Volcomism]

I did studio musician gigs. I got paid regardless!

That's what I started doing , but nothing beats playing live in front of thousands of people.

 

[Kornholio]

That's what I started doing , but nothing beats playing live in front of thousands of people.

Oh of course not! But sometimes I just want to get paid.

 

[crank1000]

that i have to pay for a ducati is the reason i dont have one. personally i think we should start just stealing them from the dealerships. i mean hell, more and more of it will be out there so people will see the ducatis.if one in five people still pays for them its al good right?


nothing like rationalizing theft to make yourself feel better....

Im all for free music of a band wants to do so....hell NIN is my fav band and they give almost all their music away. but thats their choice.


just because something is easy to steal, doesnt mean it isnt stealing

I didn't read anything in this thread after this post, so forgive me if I'm repeating something. But the reason NIN gives their music away is not because they're awesome, it's because they don't really make any money from record sales anyways. They make money on live shows. So the theory is that you give a demo of your product (in this case, it's a product that has no unit manufacturing costs) to everyone, they will know the product exists, and buy the real thing.

I'm not defending theft of music though since I'm a musician, and make at least part of my income from recording musicians. But that doesn't mean I don't rage when I buy a new album from a band, and every song except the one I heard on the radio is fucking garbage. They knew what they were doing, and they knew they would get some sap to pay full price for an album that is a pile of shit save a song or two. So I download albums, and the ones that don't make me sit through an hour of hell for 3 minutes of adequate listening get my money. Just like if every time you buy a carton of eggs, 11 of them are rotten, you're gonna start looking in the cartons before you buy any more eggs. The ones that are mostly rotten stay on the shelf for the next sap to buy their shitty album...er... eggs.

 

[teg916]

The fact of the matter is that people get fed up with getting ripped off so they start stealing the shit. Yes it is stealing and it is not right. I think getting ripped off by giant corporations is pretty much as bad.

If CD's and DVD's were sold at a reasonable price, then people would not steal them, at least not in the numbers that they are stolen right now. Why does it cost $20 for a dvd that was made 20 years ago. Or $15 for a CD made 20 years ago. Charge a fair price and most people will not go through the hassle to pirate the stuff. People like having the album art, and supporting the artist but don't like getting ripped off.

 

[wazzuFreddo]

Who wants to dial into the BBS with me so we can play a Doom II 4-player deathmatch?

 

[kevin 714]

The fact of the matter is that people get fed up with getting ripped off so they start stealing the shit. Yes it is stealing and it is not right. I think getting ripped off by giant corporations is pretty much as bad.

If CD's and DVD's were sold at a reasonable price, then people would not steal them, at least not in the numbers that they are stolen right now. Why does it cost $20 for a dvd that was made 20 years ago. Or $15 for a CD made 20 years ago. Charge a fair price and most people will not go through the hassle to pirate the stuff. People like having the album art, and supporting the artist but don't like getting ripped off.

this plus a million

 

[MikeyRocks]

I'm not defending theft of music though since I'm a musician, and make at least part of my income from recording musicians. But that doesn't mean I don't rage when I buy a new album from a band, and every song except the one I heard on the radio is fucking garbage. They knew what they were doing, and they knew they would get some sap to pay full price for an album that is a pile of shit save a song or two. So I download albums, and the ones that don't make me sit through an hour of hell for 3 minutes of adequate listening get my money. Just like if every time you buy a carton of eggs, 11 of them are rotten, you're gonna start looking in the cartons before you buy any more eggs. The ones that are mostly rotten stay on the shelf for the next sap to buy their shitty album...er... eggs.

One could argue that you could preview the album on websites like Amazon.com or iTunes rather than illegally downloading it to "preview" the album.

I didn't read anything in this thread after this post, so forgive me if I'm repeating something. But the reason NIN gives their music away is not because they're awesome, it's because they don't really make any money from record sales anyways. They make money on live shows. So the theory is that you give a demo of your product (in this case, it's a product that has no unit manufacturing costs) to everyone, they will know the product exists, and buy the real thing.

There is truth to this, which is why I support all the artists I enjoy listening to by going to their concerts, and buying their $30 shirts. I attend maybe 20-30 concerts a year, the money I save not buying CDs goes towards my concert fund...

 

[Gnarly Cranium]

But the reason NIN gives their music away is not because they're awesome, it's because they don't really make any money from record sales anyways. They make money on live shows. So the theory is that you give a demo of your product (in this case, it's a product that has no unit manufacturing costs) to everyone, they will know the product exists, and buy the real thing.

That's true of most artists so far as I know, they make far more on touring than records. Doesn't change the fact that Trent told the studios to fuck off because he was pissed and tired of dealing with their bullshit. Not to mention, NIN isn't touring again anytime soon (if ever), so it's not like they've got some master plan for advertising upcoming concerts.

And I'm not quite sure what you mean here by 'demo' unless you mean that the recordings are all demos and the concerts are the real product. NIN online releases have very high sound quality, genuinely intended as an alternative to the physical CD.

 

[macadamizer]

The fact of the matter is that people get fed up with getting ripped off so they start stealing the shit. Yes it is stealing and it is not right. I think getting ripped off by giant corporations is pretty much as bad.

How does a music label charging "too much" for a CD that you decide sucks turn into "ripping you off?" Did the music lable put a gun to your head and force you to buy the CD? Are you contractually obligated to buy the CD?

If CD's and DVD's were sold at a reasonable price, then people would not steal them, at least not in the numbers that they are stolen right now. Why does it cost $20 for a dvd that was made 20 years ago. Or $15 for a CD made 20 years ago. Charge a fair price and most people will not go through the hassle to pirate the stuff. People like having the album art, and supporting the artist but don't like getting ripped off.

Two points. First, shouldn't the option be "product is priced too high, therefore I won't buy it" instead of "product is priced too high, therefore I will steal it?" I seems that some people feel that they are entitled to the music they want at the price they want to pay for it -- and no more -- otherwise they should be free to just take it. Not sure where that mentality comes from.

Second point. This whole idea about buying just the songs you want already exists. It's called iTunes and Amazon and other places that allow you to buy individual tracks. But then the prices are "too high" or "too much DRM" or whatever.

The real issue is that so long as people can get something for nothing, and have a low chance of getting in any trouble for doing so, they will continue to do it, and make up all sorts of justifications for it...

 

[macadamizer]

So let me give you this scenario: I very rarely get p2p music. However, I have 500 mp3s, and I have only paid for a small fraction. What I do is go to a site like www.musicjesus.com where they host music videos. Then I use the program Audacity to record the audio. So is THAT stealing too?

The lines are so blurry with this stuff. The videos I watch are freely accessible. But it's the SAME music as is being sold in CDs or as mp3s. So why is one stealing, and the other is OK?

Dave

If you are creating a copy without authorization from the copyright holder, it's illegal. Nothing really blurry about.

Now, if the copyright owner gives you the authorization to keep a copy of the music video, then there really wouldn't be an issue concerning ripping the audio out for your own personal use -- copyright law already allows one to take legally-obtained works and convert them to a different format for your own personal use.

Note that watching online != to being allowed to keep a copy, even if you use an FLV downloader in Firefox or whatever.

 

[Poxy]

How does a music label charging "too much" for a CD that you decide sucks turn into "ripping you off?" Did the music lable put a gun to your head and force you to buy the CD? Are you contractually obligated to buy the CD?

Did anyone else sign up for the class action anti-trust lawsuit against the RIAA like 5 years ago? The lawsuit claimed that the majors conspired to keep prices of CD's at ~$16 for at least 10 years starting the the mid '80s.The RIAA settled the suit, and everyone who signed up got like $30. (It wasn't largely publicized)

So, in that period the major record labels illegally conspired to keep CD prices artificially high, by perhaps say $3 per CD. I bought around 500 CDs in that time period. I lost $1500 through illegal antitrust collusion.


Dear Record Industry,
Yes, I'm stealing from you. How does it feel? Go fuck yourselves.
-Peter

 

[macadamizer]

Did anyone else sign up for the class action anti-trust lawsuit against the RIAA like 5 years ago? The lawsuit claimed that the majors conspired to keep prices of CD's at ~$16 for at least 10 years starting the the mid '80s.The RIAA settled the suit, and everyone who signed up got like $30. (It wasn't largely publicized)

So, in that period the major record labels illegally conspired to keep CD prices artificially high, by perhaps say $3 per CD. I bought around 500 CDs in that time period. I lost $1500 through illegal antitrust collusion.


Dear Record Industry,
Yes, I'm stealing from you. How does it feel? Go fuck yourselves.
-Peter

This is a different issue from the one I was responding to. But in response to your point -- I wasn't defending the record companies, I was just wondering why people jump to "then I'll steal it" instead of "then I won't buy it" if the price is too high?

In your example, you claim that you bought 500 CD's that you were "overcharged" by $3.00 per because of collusion in the record industry. Did you feel "overcharged" when you bought the CD's, or only when the antitrust lawsuit became public? If the CD's weren't worth $16 each to you, why did you pay $16 for them? Did the record companies rip you off, or did you allow yourself to be "ripped off?"

 

[Poxy]

In your example, you claim that you bought 500 CD's that you were "overcharged" by $3.00 per because of collusion in the record industry. Did you feel "overcharged" when you bought the CD's, or only when the antitrust lawsuit became public?

I think that's irrelevant. They stole from me. So now, I steal from them.

 

[Poxy]

Did the record companies rip you off, or did you allow yourself to be "ripped off?"

Did I have an alternative besides not buying music? That's the whole point of Antitrust law. They conspired to keep me from having an alternative to their price schedule.

 

[macadamizer]

I think that's irrelevant. They stole from me. So now, I steal from them.

I am sure that when someone does you wrong because they think you've done them wrong, it'll all be cool -- or irrelevant -- right?

 

[macadamizer]

Did I have an alternative besides not buying music?

You could have purchased CD's used from someone else, that's an alternative. Or listened to the radio.

I am just wondering why one immediately leaps to stealing as a reasonable option to "these people aren't offering me something I want at a price I am willing to pay."

That's the whole point of Antitrust law. They conspired to keep me from having an alternative to their price schedule.

And they were punished for it via antitrust law. Unless you brought the lawsuit yourself, you don't get to dictate the terms of the punishment or settlement -- that's not how our system works.

 

[kevin 714]

I didn't read anything in this thread after this post, so forgive me if I'm repeating something. But the reason NIN gives their music away is not because they're awesome, it's because they don't really make any money from record sales anyways. They make money on live shows. So the theory is that you give a demo of your product (in this case, it's a product that has no unit manufacturing costs) to everyone, they will know the product exists, and buy the real thing.

so so not true. NIN quit tourning, forever. in fact trent sold off all his tourning gear on ebay for crazy cheap. crazy cheap. they do NO tourning, he is retired from it for the lonmg term. yet he has still goven away the HDA album free, the first 5 songs off the social networks osundtrack(he scroed) and got for his fans a two day amazon sale where the entore score was 1.99(cause he didnt own the song rights). also, he has released every obne of his remix albums for free. as well as all tose songs on mutli track for his fans to do remixes. all the songs on his ghjosts album was also licensed under a creative common licesne so anyone can use them for what he wants.

trent is a bad example cause of his commitment to his fans above and beyond even the most hardcore band. but yes, id love to see more nads who do heavy tourning release free songs as a wya to get you into shows. take smoney out of the labels and intot eh hands of the artists

 

[Gnarly Cranium]

trent is a bad example cause of his commitment to his fans above and beyond even the most hardcore band. but yes, id love to see more nads who do heavy tourning release free songs as a wya to get you into shows. take smoney out of the labels and intot eh hands of the artists

Plus, he's been a big, big name for a long time now, so he can afford to do things the way he wants more than a newer, struggling artist can. NIN is not a standard case, by far.