Mandatory Roadside Motorcycle Stops

[9rPilot]

Understood. Since 2805 states "any", it covers "all" as well. I'm sure the CVC was written more for interpretation than simplicity/clarity.

That's for sure! The keywords in 2814 and 2814a that got my attentions were the references to signs posted requiring (all) vehicles to stop.

As an engineer, the vagueness in the VC always disturbs me... I'm convinced it's subjective by design since it's largely written by Legislators (re: attorneys) that aren't experts in the field.

 

[Ozymandias]

I don't care what the laws are. If they pull me over without "probable cause" and it turns out they are just wanting to "talk to me about safety" then I'm taking it to court. Period. Particularly after my recent ride... ok, flight. I think I know quite a bit about safety. I ride in full gear and I ride 100% stock bikes on the street. They have NO reason or justification for stopping me at a check point. And if only motorcycles are being stopped that's awful close to discrimination if not crossing that line.

Long story short, there's this little thing called the constitution. I'm innocent until proven guilty and the state bears the burden of proving that I'm guilty of ANY thing and there's another little part of that same piece of paper about illegal search which does require probable cause to search a vehicle without warrant. Again, checkpoints don't equal probable cause. Not a fan of sobriety checkpoints either even though I don't like drunks on the road.

 

[Archimedes]

I don't care what the laws are. If they pull me over without "probable cause" and it turns out they are just wanting to "talk to me about safety" then I'm taking it to court. Period. Particularly after my recent ride... ok, flight. I think I know quite a bit about safety. I ride in full gear and I ride 100% stock bikes on the street. They have NO reason or justification for stopping me at a check point. And if only motorcycles are being stopped that's awful close to discrimination if not crossing that line.

Long story short, there's this little thing called the constitution. I'm innocent until proven guilty and the state bears the burden of proving that I'm guilty of ANY thing and there's another little part of that same piece of paper about illegal search which does require probable cause to search a vehicle without warrant. Again, checkpoints don't equal probable cause. Not a fan of sobriety checkpoints either even though I don't like drunks on the road.

Settle down Francis, they're not talking about charging anyone or searching anyone and they don't need probable cause to do a traffic stop and if they did, I'm sure they could find something in about 10 seconds. They can do it to check your license, registration and insurance and then you say you have no interest in the lecture and leave. 5-10 minutes of your time to maybe save the life of some other poor slob who benefits from the lecture. Horrors.

 

[silversvs]

The state of NY has been doing this for several years. They put up signs mandating that all motorcyles exit the freeway (typically at a rest area). Every motorcycle is given a quick look by an officer at the "point" position when the motorcyclists enter the rest area. The " point" officer either sends the motorcyclist through the straight lane back to the freeway, or if they see some probable cause for a stop ( ie some equipment or gear violation) they send the motorcyclist through a different lane where they get inspected by other officers.

They stage chase vehicles on the freeway for motorcyclists who do not stop as required, and have air support for those that decide to run.

From the presentation I sat in on by the New York State Patrol guy in charge of these efforts they have seen great success and have reduced the number of motorcycle collisions ocuurring on or near the freeways they have targeted. They have had their tactics challenged in court and what they are doing has been upheld.

Keep in mind that NY has different laws than California, and these types of efforts would not currently be legal. But, if California's motorcycle riders continue to kill themselves at the rates they have over the last decade the legislature may work toward implementing stronger tactics in the name of motorcycle safety.

 

[Archimedes]

The state of NY has been doing this for several years. They put up signs mandating that all motorcyles exit the freeway (typically at a rest area). Every motorcycle is given a quick look by an officer at the "point" position when the motorcyclists enter the rest area. The " point" officer either sends the motorcyclist through the straight lane back to the freeway, or if they see some probable cause for a stop ( ie some equipment or gear violation) they send the motorcyclist through a different lane where they get inspected by other officers.

They stage chase vehicles on the freeway for motorcyclists who do not stop as required, and have air support for those that decide to run.

From the presentation I sat in on by the New York State Patrol guy in charge of these efforts they have seen great success and have reduced the number of motorcycle collisions ocuurring on or near the freeways they have targeted. They have had their tactics challenged in court and what they are doing has been upheld.

Keep in mind that NY has different laws than California, and these types of efforts would not currently be legal. But, if California's motorcycle riders continue to kill themselves at the rates they have over the last decade the legislature may work toward implementing stronger tactics in the name of motorcycle safety.

Funny how the community this would benefit the most is also the most outraged. The cops should give up and just keep shoveling the remains into the meat wagon.

 

[Razel]

Ooooh. I don't think we are there, yet, are we?

Well, they do stop trucks at the (when open) scales, so I guess it's already started.

Edit: OTOH, that's commercial while the motorcycles would be personal...

 

[clutchslip]

The state of NY has been doing this for several years. They put up signs mandating that all motorcyles exit the freeway (typically at a rest area).......They have had their tactics challenged in court and what they are doing has been upheld.

Keep in mind that NY has different laws than California, and these types of efforts would not currently be legal. But, if California's motorcycle riders continue to kill themselves at the rates they have over the last decade the legislature may work toward implementing stronger tactics in the name of motorcycle safety.

Thanks for the NY perspective. I'll look up their codes and see what is up.

California has enough vagueness to make you dizzy. One of my favs:
38305. No person shall drive an off-highway motor vehicle at a
speed greater than is reasonable or prudent and in no event at a
speed which endangers the safety of other persons or property.
This kind of vagueness is found elsewhere.

On a side note: I like the new avatar.

 

[GAMBLER]

Funny how the community this would benefit the most is also the most outraged. The cops should give up and just keep shoveling the remains into the meat wagon.

wait, I'm going to be pulled over and lectured on proper gear and safety by guys who ride in short sleeve shirts and open face helmets. LOL

 

[Pooter]

Ahh crap I'm on a motorcycle AND Asian! It's like double jeopardy!

 

[Ozymandias]

Settle down Francis, they're not talking about charging anyone or searching anyone and they don't need probable cause to do a traffic stop and if they did, I'm sure they could find something in about 10 seconds. They can do it to check your license, registration and insurance and then you say you have no interest in the lecture and leave. 5-10 minutes of your time to maybe save the life of some other poor slob who benefits from the lecture. Horrors.

Honestly, that's one of those things to does get my hackles up. We live in a country that is suppose to be free but yet we keep letting our freedoms be taken away little by little for safety or for a social program or for.... whatever. "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." I have my right to not be bothered while I'm on route to work, a doctor's appointment or even a tea party. If I'm observed doing something like speeding that's one thing and I know with all the laws on the books it is pretty much impossible to drive without violating one or more. But to pull me to the side to find something is totally different. It's that whole innocent until proven guilty thing. Am I just weird that I expect those pieces of paper that this country was founded on to mean something?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

I'm just sayin'. Of course I'm no lawyer but to me that says ... well, you need probable cause BEFORE making a stop. Considering all states are restricted by that I have to assume that means a state can't make a law that takes away that right.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I'm all about MC safety. I'm even putting the gear and a bunch of things about my crash in a picture box to help show what happened to me in the hopes that it won't happen to others. I'm just against being stopped just because I'm on a motorcycle. I believe that if someone in NY challenged that it would probably be found unconstitutional. Of course that's my opinion and we all know what they say about opinions.

 

[MCSFTGUY]

wait, I'm going to be pulled over and lectured on proper gear and safety by guys who ride in short sleeve shirts and open face helmets. LOL

So, are you saying that safety is only about what you are wearing when you ride?

I would submit the motorcycle cops have the lowest vehicle mile death/crash rate of any other group of riders. This is accomplished even when riding in some of the most aggressive manners and worst conditions you can think of. If your are working speed in a 40 mph zone and you get some body going 60 mph you are not going to catch them before the next zip code unless you go a wee bit faster than 60 mph.

I am thinking that safety goes a little deeper than what is being worn... I am thinking that saddle time, practice time, visual awareness of all going on around you and attitude about riding and what you are doing on each and every trip, constant evaluation I guess, goes a little further than clothing while riding.

 

[GAMBLER]

So, are you saying that safety is only about what you are wearing when you ride?

I would submit the motorcycle cops have the lowest vehicle mile death/crash rate of any other group of riders. This is accomplished even when riding in some of the most aggressive manners and worst conditions you can think of. If your are working speed in a 40 mph zone and you get some body going 60 mph you are not going to catch them before the next zip code unless you go a wee bit faster than 60 mph.

I am thinking that safety goes a little deeper than what is being worn... I am thinking that saddle time, practice time, visual awareness of all going on around you and attitude about riding and what you are doing on each and every trip, constant evaluation I guess, goes a little further than clothing while riding.

No argument from me on all that, whats that got to do with stopping me and lecturing me about proper gear and safety.

 

[Brown81]

Settle down Francis, they're not talking about charging anyone or searching anyone and they don't need probable cause to do a traffic stop and if they did, I'm sure they could find something in about 10 seconds. They can do it to check your license, registration and insurance and then you say you have no interest in the lecture and leave. 5-10 minutes of your time to maybe save the life of some other poor slob who benefits from the lecture. Horrors.

Weren't you the same fella just bitching about how you wouldn't want to be recorded in public, and how it was all "big brother" and shit?



Do you actually believe in anything you say or do you just start arguing from pure instinct?

 

[rsrider]

Pulling people over if they haven't committed a crime is pure bullshit. Might as well be wearing a swastika instead of badge and demanding to see your papers. More police state tactics under the guise of "educating the public". Anyone who thinks this is a good thing shouldn't be allowed to vote or hold public office.

 

[silversvs]

No argument from me on all that, whats that got to do with stopping me and lecturing me about proper gear and safety.

From what I know (as stated I attended a presentation by the NY State Patrol) motorcyclist were only stopped for equipment or safety violations. Stops were not made strictly to "lecture" or provide safety information.

looking at the link provided there is no mention of the enforcement efforts, so I don't know if that's just to provide hysteria for their efforts or if there was more to what the NY State Patrol was doing than they put out in their presentation.

 

[TheRiddler]

From the presentation I sat in on by the New York State Patrol guy in charge of these efforts they have seen great success and have reduced the number of motorcycle collisions ocuurring on or near the freeways they have targeted. They have had their tactics challenged in court and what they are doing has been upheld.

Correlation does not equal causation. If there's a highway with a whole bunch of police on it, it kind makes sense that I'll be riding slower.

I oppose the idea. I find that education by the police seems to fall short. The education I've received from officers tends to take a tone of condescension (and not simply when pulled over). That method doesn't work well with me.

The state needs to start at the license test. Being granted a license assumes you know how to properly operate the vehicle. If you ("you" being a certain demographic) is repeatedly involved in similar accidents, then the instruction gone through prior to receiving a license needs to be modified.

 

[Thateguhate]

Now correct me if I'm wrong here.. But wouldn't having something like this give riders even more reason to run?

Some obey the law and make it years without even getting lit up without even having so much as a permit. If the state was to do this more people would run than they even do now because they don't even necessarily have to do anything wrong to have they're info checked.

Giving chase on a rider that is not willing to stop for a lecture and a safety check might fill that meat wagon up even faster than before... Wouldn't you think? If someone is screwing around doing 150 down 101 that's one thing, but randomly pulling riders to the side for a "check" is only going to create more problems I think.

We're better off with mandatory MSF training... Maybe every 10 years or so to make it a requirement. And also, what happens if you have passed through one and make it out fine? Do they tag your bike in some way so you don't get stuck going through this time and time again?

 

[Ironbutt]

Here's the question you have to ask yourself; If your motorcycle was accused of being in roadworthy legal condition. Would there be enough evidence to prove it?

The answer for me is.. Nope.. It'd fail miserably.

 

[bluesjr]

Motorcycle targeted enforcement has already been happening around here. It's all crap no matter what the reason they wrap it in is.

I ride through town like I'm flying a big "lookie-me" flag. Got pulled over last week on my bike for a crosswalk violation, first time in 30 years of driving ( but only been riding 3 months). So yeah, I'd say it's because I was on a M/C. Got off with a warning, after he asked about my driving record.

Edit: But you know, know that I think about it, I probably look pretty bad-ass on my big 'o low-slung 650. And if not the bike, that bright f/f helmet and A* jacket is a dead giveaway.

 

[Wack]

" total funding is capped at $350,000."

While I agree that it's a lot of cash to waste in tough times, $350,000.00 doesn't buy much in the way of police harassment. Hollister used to pay that for the gestapo presence at the ironically named Independence Day Rally. $350,000.00 is barely two cops salaries with benefits for a year.