Many things apparently went wrong with Oil Rig Disaster!

[Climber]

What went wrong at oil rig? A lot, probers find

Bad wiring and a leak in what's supposed to be a "blowout preventer." Sealing problems that may have allowed a methane eruption. Even a dead battery, of all things.

New disclosures Wednesday revealed a complex cascade of deep-sea equipment failures and procedural problems in the oil rig explosion and massive spill that is still fouling the waters of the Gulf of Mexico and threatening industries and wildlife near the coast and on shore.

The public also got its first look on Wednesday of oil gushing from the broken pipe that rests nearly a mile under water as BP PLC, the well's operator, released a video taken by a remotely controlled camera. Oil flowing from a break in the yellowish pipe becomes lighter in color as it mixes with natural gas. Over the past 21 days more than 4 million gallons of oil have been released.

A litany of worrisome events and findings that were at play on the night of the well explosion and pipe rupture was described in internal corporate documents, marked confidential but provided to a House committee by BP and by the manufacturer of the safety device. Lawmakers released them at a House hearing.

It sure seems like this was just an accident waiting to happen as facts keep trickling in about this incident!

 

[Marlowe]

Complex systems fail in complex ways. An oil rig is one of the most advanced, and complicated things we build.

If you're surprised, I don't know what to say.

 

[Climber]

Complex systems fail in complex ways. An oil rig is one of the most advanced, and complicated things we build.

If you're surprised, I don't know what to say.

There's some things that happened that aren't in this article, like clear indications of some troubling pressure figures but they made the decision to go forward (when they could have investigated further) and the explosions happened shortly after that.

It wasn't a matter of a series of complex things causing other things to fail. It was a collection of failures that together led to the disaster.

 

[mean dad]

Complex systems fail in complex ways. An oil rig is one of the most advanced, and complicated things we build.

If you're surprised, I don't know what to say.

lol. a fucking pump is one of the most complex things we build? granted, its a tall pump, but its a pump...the refineries are much more complex, and thats staying in the oil field. rockets, satellites, atom smashers, nuclear submarines...
you just like to be condescending, don't you?

 

[Marlowe]

lol. a fucking pump is one of the most complex things we build? granted, its a tall pump, but its a pump...the refineries are much more complex, and thats staying in the oil field. rockets, satellites, atom smashers, nuclear submarines...
you just like to be condescending, don't you?

You just like being ignorant of the facts, don't you?



Try these on:

It's not just a pump, we're talking about the entire rig. This thing doesn't just pump oil, it drills for it... in fact, the platform in question just dug the DEEPEST OIL WELL, which was over 35,000 feet deep -- nearly 7 miles. This puts it at the second deepest man made hole in the planet (the Rooskies spent the cold war digging a slightly deeper one.) That is a non-trivial accomplishment by any means.

So, this platform... dug a 7 mile hole... while being a portable rig, dynamically positionable, deep-water semi-submersible rig. That is a hell of a piece of machinery.

On top of that, then you have to operate this thing, while it's digging holes nobody has dug. Human factors, procedures, etc...the entire thing is the system to which I was referring.

It's way, way more than just a pump. Le sigh.

 

[Cycle61]

There's some things that happened that aren't in this article, like clear indications of some troubling pressure figures but they made the decision to go forward (when they could have investigated further) and the explosions happened shortly after that.

It wasn't a matter of a series of complex things causing other things to fail. It was a collection of failures that together led to the disaster.

Funny how these disasters always seem to have a strong element of procedural violation, deliberate ignorance of numerous warning signs, and a collective failure to notice a system teetering out of balance. Ever read up on exactly what happened at Chernobyl? It's a chilling series of bullheaded decisions to proceed with an operation in the face of mounting signs to stop.

lol. a fucking pump is one of the most complex things we build? granted, its a tall pump, but its a pump...the refineries are much more complex, and thats staying in the oil field. rockets, satellites, atom smashers, nuclear submarines...
you just like to be condescending, don't you?

Actually, I've worked on nuclear submarines. I'd sure as fuck rather be on one of them than an oil rig. It's a lot more than just a pump...

Edit: Marlowe, as usual, beats me to the punch. But I have operational experience.

 

[Climber]

Actually, I've worked on nuclear submarines. I'd sure as fuck rather be on one of them than an oil rig. It's a lot more than just a pump...

Edit: Marlowe, as usual, beats me to the punch. But I have operational experience.

Agreed on the nuclear subs, once upon a time I knew all of the non-nuclear systems and could tell you where just about all 18.5k components were for the 637 class subs.

But, at the same time, when you're dealing with complex systems with huge pressure factors involved, you follow the procedures and make damn sure everything is working within accepted parameters.

 

[Marlowe]

Climber, nobody's suggesting they performed perfectly.

I'm just saying, the rig, it's machinery, procedures, and people, constitute an incredibly complex system, and the failure modes for those usually aren't pretty...there is loads more we'll probably never know about since it's been blowed up and sunk...

 

[kevin 714]

but climber, there was even more money to be made if you skip a safety warning here and there

 

[Marlowe]

but climber, there was even more money to be made if you skip a safety warning here and there

Again, they wouldn't be out there poking really big holes in the planet, unless we demanded this thing:

And this one:

And this:

And this:

And all this plastic shit:

And this:

See all that asphalt? Guess what that's made of?

We are our own worst enemy, and it's just going to get harder from here....

 

[kevin 714]

not a single disagreement there....of course theres plenty of money in KEEPING our addiction to oil an addiction...instead of moving to different resources...

 

[Cycle61]

PROCEDURAL COMPLIANCE

That's why I trust a bunch of 19-20 year old kids out on a boat to run a nuclear reactor more safely than any civilian plant in existence...because I know how they've been trained.

The Navy isn't expected to turn a profit.

 

[Marlowe]

For energy, yes, but energy is a small part of it.

We also demand all the plastic shit...there is no replacement for the petro in petrochemicals.

As long as we want our disposable plastic shit, and even our durable plastic shit, this must go on.

 

[Climber]

Climber, nobody's suggesting they performed perfectly.

I'm just saying, the rig, it's machinery, procedures, and people, constitute an incredibly complex system, and the failure modes for those usually aren't pretty...there is loads more we'll probably never know about since it's been blowed up and sunk...

The entire system may be very complex, but it's made up of many much less complex systems.

The Blowout Protector valve had a hydraulic leak. That device would have prevented the ecological disaster if it had worked properly. It was a point of failure.

The system failed a pressure test (maybe two), just hours before the explosion on the rig, something that indicated that something was not right down at the well head and that natural gas was in the pipes when it shouldn't have been.

Your 'fail safes' aren't supposed to fail. If you can't design them to be 'fail safe', then you shouldn't be in the business of doing something that may require it.

 

[Climber]

Again, they wouldn't be out there poking really big holes in the planet, unless we demanded this thing:


See all that asphalt? Guess what that's made of?

We are our own worst enemy, and it's just going to get harder from here....

So, what's your point?

That it's ok for them to cut corners because of our dependency on oil?

 

[Marlowe]

Climber, again -- I'm not arguing that they should have followed their procedures... I think I've been abundantly clear on that point.

But I also suspect their procedures were written by people who weren't digging the world's biggest hole.

It's impossible to anticipate everything that might happen, when you're the first to do something. Doesn't mean they shouldn't have taken the conservative approach.

But I bet, in order to get their job done, they've had to deviate before... and in part, because those writing the procedures aren't the guys in the field doing the job.

Doesn't excuse it, but plans don't always survive contact with reality.

 

[Anti-Hero]

lol. a fucking pump is one of the most complex things we build? granted, its a tall pump, but its a pump...the refineries are much more complex, and thats staying in the oil field. rockets, satellites, atom smashers, nuclear submarines...
you just like to be condescending, don't you?

 

[Anti-Hero]

So, what's your point?

That it's ok for them to cut corners because of our dependency on oil?

You really did some mental gymnastics on that one.

 

[Dr. Evil]

It wasn't a matter of a series of complex things causing other things to fail. It was a collection of failures that together led to the disaster.

This tautological statement is tautological.

 

[Brown81]

Again, they wouldn't be out there poking really big holes in the planet, unless we demanded this thing:

And this one:

And this:

[

So, it's the fucking rich people again.