max exhaust db

[motorman4life]

1. Its not so much something I'd like to believe, I'm just trying to handle conflicting amounts of information. I'd hate to get out on the street and cite someone because I am mis-imformed, so I'm jsut trying to figure it all out. Its also not my place to argue with a police academy instructor over traffic laws solely based on what someone told me on the internet. (If you see where I'm comming from.) No offense.

2. Challenging YOUR judgement, training & experience of an exhaust being too loud only works with automobiles according to my instructor, and that is why you can cite an auto without the db meter, but it doesn't work the other way around.

I never thought about the DOT/ EPA stamp on the exhaust, so I'm glad you brought that up. This is the difference beetween real world experience, and being in the academy.

My question is this, how do get the PC in order to stop the moto so that you can check the DOT/ EPA stamp? Is it solely based upon the fact that the moto exhaust in your training & experience seemed too loud? I'm just wondering because if what my instructor and you are saying is correct, you'd need a db meter in your rig in order to facilitate the stop, or else you would have to grounds to stop for the exhaust violation. And from what I understand CHP is one of the only authorized agencies who can pull someone over without any reason for a vehicle equipment inspection.

It is not a matter of challenging him based upon something you heard on the Internet. When he says "according to the code" ask for the section and read it yourself.

The single mirror section is a prime example:
26709 CVC states:
(a) Every motor vehicle registered in a foreign jurisdiction and every motorcycle subject to registration in this state shall be equipped with a mirror so located as to reflect to the driver a view of the highway for a distance of at least 200 feet to the rear of such vehicle.

Every motor vehicle subject to registration in this state, except a motorcycle, shall be equipped with not less than two such mirrors, including one affixed to the left-hand side.

(b) The following described types of motor vehicles, of a type subject to registration, shall be equipped with mirrors on both the left-and right-hand sides of the vehicle so located as to reflect to the driver a view of the highway through each mirror for a distance of at least 200 feet to the rear of such vehicle:
(1) A motor vehicle so constructed or loaded as to obstruct the driver's view to the rear.
(2) A motor vehicle towing a vehicle and the towed vehicle or load thereon obstructs the driver's view to the rear.
(3) A bus or trolley coach.
(c) The provisions of subdivision (b) shall not apply to a passenger vehicle when the load obstructing the driver's view consists of passengers.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, he told you he routinely stops motorcycles on the GG Bridge for having a single mirror and cites them for same. I'll have to assume he is citing them for 26709(a)CVC. Has he even read the section himself? He is teaching an academy class full of future patrol officers and he is the "expert" and he is out there (ahem!) --violating people's rights--- on a regular basis. To make matters worse, he apparently is teaching a class full of recruits to do the same.

I'm not going to say he has no business being there teaching, maybe you misunderstood what he said. But, I can't give the benefit of the doubt to both you and him at the same time... one of you is fucked up!

When it comes to traffic enforcement 99.9% of it is in the CVC. Don't accept "the code says"... get the code # and read it yourself. If what you are told and what you read are in conflict, don't challenge him... tell him you don't understand, refer to the code and ask for his expertise in clarifying the conflict.

As for your last question. PC is just that, probable cause. PC to stop is nothing more than the probable cause (the reasonable belief that it is more likely than not a violation has occurred or is occurring) to investigate further. You don't need enough proof to write the ticket or win in court, in order to make the investigative stop.

 

[jbt56]

Mmm, worms.

Didn't the Magnussen-Moss (sp) Act establish that you can't void a warranty for the use of aftermarket parts, unless you can reliably demonstrate that the use of the part caused the problem in question? I'm pretty sure the only thing you void by putting an aftermarket exhaust on is the warranty on the exhaust.

Yes. That is essentially correct. A vehicle manufacturer or his representative (the dealer) cannot deny warranty repairs simply because aftermarket parts are on a vehicle. The burden of proof is on them to prove the part (or the installation) caused the problem. As you pointed out, in the case of a muffler, Honda (or whomever) isn't responsible for your Muzzy or whatever pipe.

 

[silversvs]

Dean129,



As for enforcement of these sections, the Vehicle Code specifically refers to mufflers which produce a maximum noise exceeding the applicable noise limit at a distance of 50 feet from the centerline of travel under test procedures established by the Department of the California Highway Patrol. In order to enforce any noise violations, we must refer to the California Code of Regulations (CCR) which are established by the CHP.

Under CCR Title 13, article 9 section 1030 passenger cars, light trucks, and busses can be tested for noise emissions using a static test. The vehicle can be parked with the motor running at a specified RPM and tested with specific measuring devices in a specified manner. This testing procedure does not apply to motorcycles.

Per the CCR, motorcycle noise emissions must be measured while the vehicle is in use. The method for setting up a measuring system is outlined in article 10 section 1045.

I'm betting that the instructor is referring to the CCRs.

Whadaya think MM4L?

 

[Dean129]

Thanks guys, I will have to question the reasoning by asking the instructor to give us the code section. That way I can see the proof for myself. This is somewhat odd that our instructor is this far off base. The exhaust question I and two other recruits asked him twice, WTF.

MM4L, I never got a chance to ask him again about the mirror question. I'll have to save that one for another discussion.

Thanks again,

dean

 

[JPM]

Just outta curiosity since we are on the topic of modified exhausts, how does that work for a previous out-of-state bike were the exhaust was legal, but the bike is now registered in CA (same owner - there were no issues getting the bikes transferred over)? Same law, or are there provisions?

It's not like my Muzzy exhaust is loud enough to draw unwanted attention, I'm mostly just curious.

Thanks in advance!

No exemptions. If it's registered in California it has to meet California regulations and can be cited.

 

[JPM]

Wow, I missed a lot in this thread because i stopped checking it after the exhaust section was posted on the first page and that pretty much answered the question.

However if this is the information you have been getting from a police academy and from a CHP officer, I would be very suprised. The Vehicle Code is like the bible for the CHP. MM4L has posted all the correct sections for the violations that you were asking about and you can look them all up yourself from the links in this thread.

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165689

 

[motorman4life]

I'm betting that the instructor is referring to the CCRs.
Whadaya think MM4L?

Yup, the CCRs describe how to conduct the test. They do not state that failing a test is the only way a citation can be given. I don't have to give a test IAW the CCRs to know the exhaust is not in complaince. As I mentioned, I can cite on PC (probable cause), based upon my training and experience.

What the instructor should be doing is certifying your class using any available means (audio tapes with a db meter in use) or various compliant and non-compliant exhausts. He could set up a simple test and make you all court experts in excessive db recognition via auditory field sampling (and able to pass Voir Dire) in about 30-45 minutes. Bada-bing-bada-boom. Instead, he is giving you bogus info and sending you out to repeat his mistakes.

 

[JPM]

Added links to CCR's and CARB. http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2621604#post2621604

 

[EastBayDave]

How about YOUR feelings on aftermarket exhausts???

I recently changed out a too-loud 103db "race baffle" for a 92db "street baffle." It's so quiet now it's near what it was w/the stocker on. I can't hear it on freeway/highway speeds. It's TOO quiet...

I'm curious w/all the insanely loud HD straight pipes, how you officers actually "real-world" cite? Do you let it go if it's not too loud (not obnoxious noise level), & cite the loud guys ? We hear all the LOUD HD's around; so I can't see citing someone w/a 92db pipe that's barely louder than stock vs. all the too loud straight piped Hardley's out there....

???

 

[silverbelt]

How about YOUR feelings on aftermarket exhausts???

I recently changed out a too-loud 103db "race baffle" for a 92db "street baffle." It's so quiet now it's near what it was w/the stocker on. I can't hear it on freeway/highway speeds. It's TOO quiet...

I'm curious w/all the insanely loud HD straight pipes, how you officers actually "real-world" cite? Do you let it go if it's not too loud (not obnoxious noise level), & cite the loud guys ? We hear all the LOUD HD's around; so I can't see citing someone w/a 92db pipe that's barely louder than stock vs. all the too loud straight piped Hardley's out there....

???

+1

I am sick and tired of LEO's regurgitating the same CVC, DOT, CARB "on the books" laws.

What I want to hear is what the LEO's in this forum are actually doing on the street when it comes to aftermarket pipes. From my vantage point, they are all talk and no action UNLESS your asking for a ticket (excessive speeding, high revs, wheeling, squidly behavior)

But I would like to hear real world examples of LEO's citing sportbikes, Harleys, for aftermarket pipes. Would you cite specifically for an aftermarket pipe?

 

[motorman4life]

But I would like to hear real world examples of LEO's citing sportbikes, Harleys, for aftermarket pipes. Would you cite specifically for an aftermarket pipe?

I have overlooked loud pipes on occasion. If they are flying HA colors or a "prospect" rocker, I'll usually make an extra effort to make the stop. Amazing how many of those knuckledragers don't have a class M license.

If it is some HD wannabe, a Shadow or Road Star with some Soccer Dad on board, I'll cut a little slack, particularly if I am going somewhere. But, there have been occasions where I am monitoring traffic or running radar and I hear a loud exhause 5 to 6 blocks away. I will stop what I am doing and home in on the sound and make the stop. If I stop, I ticket. Sportbikes, cruisers, Harleys. I cite 'em all equally.

FWIW, I probably write as many tickets for loud exhaust on cars as I do on motorcycles... maybe 3 to 5 a week. I also write people for 27007 CVC (loud stereo)... about 4 a week in the summer months. It depends on how busy I am with other things.

 

[Honey Badger]

Ya, good point! With all the harleys running around that are so loud they will even wake ME up at night, I would be rather irrate with any cop (at least in my town where I hear all the HDs) who pulled me over solely on the basis of my exhaust! Granted, IF I was being stupid and got pulled over for something else, well, that's my own stupidity.

Soley on basis of volume - at least here, there are MUCH bigger (or louder as the case is) fish to catch!

 

[silversvs]

[BI am sick and tired of LEO's regurgitating the same CVC, DOT, CARB "on the books" laws.

What I want to hear is what the LEO's in this forum are actually doing on the street when it comes to aftermarket pipes. From my vantage point, they are all talk and no action UNLESS your asking for a ticket (excessive speeding, high revs, wheeling, squidly behavior)

But I would like to hear real world examples of LEO's citing sportbikes, Harleys, for aftermarket pipes. Would you cite specifically for an aftermarket pipe? [/B]

I don't write exhaust tickets. I have not received complaints from community members about loud exhausts, so its not really on my radar as something to cite for.

As for "regurgitating the same CVC, DOT, CARB "on the books" laws" I just try to answer the questions as they come up here on BARF. The original poster on this thread asked for specifics and he got them.

 

[JPM]

+1

I am sick and tired of LEO's regurgitating the same CVC, DOT, CARB "on the books" laws.

What I want to hear is what the LEO's in this forum are actually doing on the street when it comes to aftermarket pipes. From my vantage point, they are all talk and no action UNLESS your asking for a ticket (excessive speeding, high revs, wheeling, squidly behavior)

But I would like to hear real world examples of LEO's citing sportbikes, Harleys, for aftermarket pipes. Would you cite specifically for an aftermarket pipe?

If you read the LEO threads (And I know you do, you have disagreed with me enough in them ), you will see that most of the LEO's here have already posted a number of times that its the same for cars and bikes. Unless they are doing sorting stupid to gain the attention of the officer usually they are not stopped for just modified exhaust or modified lighting. However that can change when there are complaints or directed enforcement for a specific problem.

 

[silverbelt]

Appreciate the responses guys, thanks

 

[fuldog]

I can understand a LEO's reluctance to cite for loud pipes if the person isn't doing anything else illegal, BUT the guys riding Harleys with straight pipes (based on the noise level) are pissing off everyone with their obnoxious behavior.
They make as much noise as possible leaving a stopsign, constantly rev the motor as if it wouldn't idle otherwise, and when in a group the overall noise level is intolerable. I don't understand how any LEO could fail to cite them unless the're deaf.

 

[porterville]

Motorcycle is defined in 400 CVC. It starts off: "A motorcycle is any motor vehicle having..." Motor Driven Cycle is defined in 405 CVC and it starts off: "A motor driven cycle is any motorcycle with a motor that displaces less than 150cc's."
]

so my ysr has no db limit? i wana get the stinger off an air cooled vw and replace it with the last foot of my exhaust.

 

[motorman4life]

so my ysr has no db limit? i wana get the stinger off an air cooled vw and replace it with the last foot of my exhaust.

Why would you think your YSR would be exempt?

 

[nate]

Look, a cop can write you up for anything, anytime, ...so be nice!
You can go to court and fight anything, anytime,. …And you may even win!
The difference is the cop is getting paid and you are paying your lawyer and possibly the city, state and you insurance carrier too!, …..so be nice!

IMHO – Cops should look at the boys on Harley’s setting off car alarms before hassling some dude on a rice rocket with a Two Brothers slip on!!!

Unless of course he's pulling 12 o'clocks and mouthing off to the officer!

 

[Webdev511]

so my ysr has no db limit? i wana get the stinger off an air cooled vw and replace it with the last foot of my exhaust.

Does your ysr have a licence plate? If so, 80 db is the target.