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Middle-aged women taking MSF...What have we done?

so now we have moved on to seat height instead of CC? :facepalm

So anyway...it's already been mentioned, but you have seemed to miss this point. Motorcycles have inertia, and righting forces acting on them that act differently in the equation than your simple "any other sport" theory. These forces change with rider weight, bike weight, engine RPM, wheel RPM, body position etc etc. Simply doing donuts in the parking lot does nothing to help you learn the different feels and handling characteristics your bike will have at different speeds and conditions.

You seem to take the approach that riding a motorcycle FOR YOU is some kind of gymkana experience. That's fine...FOR YOU! Your 'theories' don't hold for all riders and all cases.

P.S. You know SQUAT about lean angle theory by doing your enduro/parking lot drills. Get a REAL sportbike and do a trackday...if you dare. Then come back and tell us all you know.
 
just so I'm clear on this, are we talking about middle aged women under 45 yo, which to me are actually young women.
I haertly approve of more young women on motorcycles.
 
n10sive said:
So anyway...it's already been mentioned, but you have seemed to miss this point. Motorcycles have inertia, and righting forces acting on them that act differently in the equation than your simple "any other sport" theory.
Click to expand...

The above is a key to simplifying what beginner continues to complicate: It doesn't take extraordinary balance and coordination to sit securely on something that tends to maintain its own balance. A motorcycle will behave this way if the rider doesn't disturb it.

The control operations on a motorcycle are finite in number and it doesn't require exquisite balance to ride one proficiently. If a person is comfortable on a bicycle, the odds are good they'll become so with a motorcycle too. The better the rider understands how to do the minimum to make the motorcycle do what she wants, the easier the whole business is.
 
beginner said:
In every other sport the thing that takes time is improving coordination, motorbalance skills, all the automatic subliminal stuff. There's no reason for bike handling to be any different.
Click to expand...
You make many assumptions based on your very limited experience and narrow focused riding. Steetbikes on street tires on paved surfaces at street speeds do not lose and recover traction like your dirt bike, with dirt tires does at low speeds in parking lots and trails. At the speeds that you ride, your motorcycle responds to body english. At 'normal' street speeds, your motorcycle will not respond to body english in the same manner. It will largely ignore you. You are are incorrectly assuming that all motorcycles handle the same way and handle the same at walking and street speeds.

The things I can observe that seem to correlate the best to progress are better control of lean angle and more feel for traction changes. If you have a better way to explain it I'm interested.
Click to expand...

When ridden in a safe manner, a street bike will not experience the 'traction changes' that you have felt on your dirtbike, on dirt tires, in a parking lot, and on trails.

The reason a small bike might be a good choice in the beginning is it's easier to control the lean angle and easier to feel traction changes so those lessons come faster.
Click to expand...

Controlling lean angle is very easy to do on any motorcycle. Again, you are basing your opinion on your limited experience and uneducated opinions.

I love the bigger bike but the extra challenges of riding it meant slower progress.
Click to expand...

Only because you intentionally limit your progress.
 
n10sive said:
So anyway...it's already been mentioned, but you have seemed to miss this point. Motorcycles have inertia, and righting forces acting on them that act differently in the equation than your simple "any other sport" theory. These forces change with rider weight, bike weight, engine RPM, wheel RPM, body position etc etc. Simply doing donuts in the parking lot does nothing to help you learn the different feels and handling characteristics your bike will have at different speeds and conditions.

You seem to take the approach that riding a motorcycle FOR YOU is some kind of gymkana experience. That's fine...FOR YOU! Your 'theories' don't hold for all riders and all cases.

P.S. You know SQUAT about lean angle theory by doing your enduro/parking lot drills. Get a REAL sportbike and do a trackday...if you dare. Then come back and tell us all you know.
Click to expand...
Better control of lean angle and better feel for traction changes is what makes it possible to ride closer to the traction limits.
 
beginner said:
Better control of lean angle and better feel for traction changes is what makes it possible to ride closer to the traction limits.
Click to expand...


^^^^

well ya have to give him the fact that he has a tuff hide or in the alternative, that he has a weird sence of humor:|
 
tuxumino said:
just so I'm clear on this, are we talking about middle aged women under 45 yo, which to me are actually young women.
I haertly approve of more young women on motorcycles.
Click to expand...

See there Stormdragon........it's not all bad. You can also look forward to the time when they are ALL young women:thumbup
 
tuxumino said:
just so I'm clear on this, are we talking about middle aged women under 45 yo, which to me are actually young women.
I haertly approve of more young women on motorcycles.
Click to expand...
Hey, when did middle-aged become under 45? I consider myself the former but I'm not the latter. But then again, I'm not a women, so I guess it doesn't matter :twofinger
 
Oh wow, I posted a response like a newb without reading teh whole thread. How silly of me to assume it was still on topic. Then I came across Beginner's first post and I knew why it was so long.

And with that:

successful-troll-is-successful.jpg
 
beginner said:
Better control of lean angle and better feel for traction changes is what makes it possible to ride closer to the traction limits.
Click to expand...

WHICH PEOPLE IN THE MSF COURSE NEVER GET NEAR. Sorry to yell but this is a thread for a couple of nice women who, in the flower of their youth, decided to try riding. Pumping the idea that there is some kind of imaginary slip/slide/traction edge they are even getting close to is ridiculous. One of the prime things that has come out that damages new riders is intimidation. They are nervous to start with, for you to pull out your striking misunderstanding of traction and lean only increases serves YOU. How? Because you get to make riding this intimidating thing that is fraught with danger and how you, and only you, seem to be the one to understand how it works and how to safely navigate it.

By making it sound harder than it is--you make yourself braver, and badder, and smarter. Which just don't work. Learning to ride is strikingly easy if you're mildly coordinated and easily coached. Riding on the street requires both skill and intelligence, which the OP seems to have in spades. Why make this harder when you should be helping make it easier?

Ladies like this need to be nurtured and encouraged, not used for deluded self-aggrandizement as you lecture about imaginary issues.
 
CaptCrash said:
WHICH PEOPLE IN THE MSF COURSE NEVER GET NEAR. Sorry to yell but this is a thread for a couple of nice women who, in the flower of their youth, decided to try riding. Pumping the idea that there is some kind of imaginary slip/slide/traction edge they are even getting close to is ridiculous. One of the prime things that has come out that damages new riders is intimidation. They are nervous to start with, for you to pull out your striking misunderstanding of traction and lean only increases serves YOU. How? Because you get to make riding this intimidating thing that is fraught with danger and how you, and only you, seem to be the one to understand how it works and how to safely navigate it.

By making it sound harder than it is--you make yourself braver, and badder, and smarter. Which just don't work. Learning to ride is strikingly easy if you're mildly coordinated and easily coached. Riding on the street requires both skill and intelligence, which the OP seems to have in spades. Why make this harder when you should be helping make it easier?

Ladies like this need to be nurtured and encouraged, not used for deluded self-aggrandizement as you lecture about imaginary issues.
Click to expand...
Look back a few posts, I said riding a bike, huge or tiny, isn't dangerous and the risks are low. I say the risks are related to where and how fast you ride, not what you ride or whether you ride.

The 2 day MSF course teaches most people enough to continue on--in a parking lot on a small bike. I'm controversial for saying the post-MSF parking lot phase needs to be taken more seriously, last longer, and the highest priority of the MSF course should be to sell that to the students.

I'm not the only rider who thinks the parking lot is fun. Another one, is you.
 
I'm sorry, but I'm going to press the shiny, red, candylike button:

Beginner. I think you need to get yourself a trials bike and go do some observed trials. It'd be right up your alley, and you can always aspire to this.
 
one of the mods is an instructor, and he is amazingly paitient. some of the gurlz think he is hawt, but whatever...

Without reading all the posts, go for it. Gentlemen love to help ladies. Nothing to scuff but your pride.
 
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