non musician asking a musical question. I think.

[Beanzy]

Does two quarter notes followed by two half notes and one whole note = 2 x .25 = 1/2 plus 2 x .5 = 1 + 1. =2.5? Not the prettiest notation, and I may be mathematically way off the mark; I am trying to learn.

No. The two quarter notes equal one beat, the two half notes added equal two more beats each. The quarter notes equal the "4 and" beats for You can and so the final beats of a previous measure. Count on me equal two half notes each followed by a whole note (4 beats).

In a fast 4/4 we count "1 and" as the first beat, or two shoe taps. Eight quarters to a whole measure are "1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and," or 8 shoe taps. When you hear Marty sing triplets, that's one beat but not necessarily the triple beat to 5/4.

Don't have notation software but this piano version of the song keeps 4/4 time and you'll be able to follow it more easily. Also shows the corresponding notes being played and their duration:

https://youtu.be/Z472u4oqc9Q

 

[poach]

I agree with Poach. I'm hearing 4/4. Listen to the snare drum. When you count to 4, you'll hear the snare (or the cymbals in part of the song) hit on 2 and 4.

If you want to have fun confirming if you really do have rhythm, try clapping along to this vid. It's in 7/8. I have been working on clapping to it by feel, but so far, the only way I can make it all the way through on time is to count to 7. (he basically plays at the same tempo the entire video.) Things get really hard when he starts playing the half note triplets.

[youtube]Njy7pMVKJ8Q[/youtube]

Great vid...

Instead of counting to seven, try one and two and three and one and two and three and four and.

 

[poach]

lifetime drummer here.

More guitar players have crappy rhythm than any other musician. There I said it. Dont know what it is about that instrument that lends itself to getting a free pass on missing downbeats and making up their own parts. That's probably how the guitar part on this song was written, first as a mistake.

Just listen to the bass and drums and you will always be able to figure out the time signature.

The song is in 4/4. Simple rock beat with the emphasis on 2 and 4 count.

So a lifetime of drumming turns people into condescending twits?

You know what you call a drummer who just broke up with his girlfriend?

Homeless...


You know how to tell when a drummer’s platform is level?

The drool flows equally from both side of his mouth...


You know how to get a drummer off your porch?

Pay him for the pizza...

 

[Johndicezx9]

 

[bcj]

I'm more with Joe Strummer

"On four. FOUR!"

 

[wannabe]

Great vid...

Instead of counting to seven, try one and two and three and one and two and three and four and.

I have no issue with counting to seven. My issue is with not having a natural 'feel' for 7/8. I have a natural feel for 3/4, 4/4/, 6/8, and a couple others. I can count to seven and know where to clap. The hard part is to try to just clap without counting. I haven’t been able to do it yet.

 

[900ss]

I found an image of the first sheet of Jesse Barish' music for the song, and I see the time is noted as 4/4.

Thanks everyone for the education.

https://tredwellsmusic.com/count-on-me-jesse-barish-recorded-by-jefferson-starship-sheet-musicsongbook-out-of-print

 

[Johndicezx9]

Is this relevant to a 5 - time/ beat /measure musical mumbo jumbo? Asked sincerely; I am familiar with Dave Brubeck's "Take Five" that is in 5/4 measure. Not that I would know the difference, but this sounds very different to me.

I was making a "Family Guy" reference, I couldn't carry a tune if it had handles.

 

[poach]

I have no issue with counting to seven. My issue is with not having a natural 'feel' for 7/8. I have a natural feel for 3/4, 4/4/, 6/8, and a couple others. I can count to seven and know where to clap. The hard part is to try to just clap without counting. I haven’t been able to do it yet.

I feel ya. This one’s in 12/8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=owArsqc3OFg

That one little hitch didn’t feel natural at all, but ultimately all it took was practice. Funny thing is, once I got it I couldn’t imagine how didn’t get it in the first place.

 

[wannabe]

I feel ya. This one’s in 12/8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=owArsqc3OFg

That one little hitch didn’t feel natural at all, but ultimately all it took was practice. Funny thing is, once I got it I couldn’t imagine how didn’t get it in the first place.

Yeah, I never had an issue with 12/8. It just naturally felt like 4/4 with triplets to me. Just ale out the middle beat in each triplet, and you get a swing feel.

Have you heard Three of a Perfect Pair by King Crimson? The verses are in 6/8, and the chorus is in 7/8. And, they throw in a couple of 8/8 measures just to fuck you up.

[youtube]hLlpDELffBc[/youtube]

 

[poach]

Yeah, I never had an issue with 12/8. It just naturally felt like 4/4 with triplets to me. Just ale out the middle beat in each triplet, and you get a swing feel.

Have you heard Three of a Perfect Pair by King Crimson? The verses are in 6/8, and the chorus is in 7/8. And, they throw in a couple of 8/8 measures just to fuck you up.

[youtube]hLlpDELffBc[/youtube]

Sooooo good. And a perfect example why I’ll always be more of an enthusiast than a pro.

 

[JakesKTM]

So a lifetime of drumming turns people into condescending twits?

You know what you call a drummer who just broke up with his girlfriend?

Homeless...


You know how to tell when a drummer’s platform is level?

The drool flows equally from both side of his mouth...


You know how to get a drummer off your porch?

Pay him for the pizza...

do you have an amp that goes to 11?

 

[poach]

Nope, but I’ll be honest with you. I can’t find the 8/8 parts in the Crimson tune. Maybe you can point out the exact time in the vid where that 8/8 starts and where it ends.

 

[900ss]

Sooooo good. And a perfect example why I’ll always be more of an enthusiast than a pro.

That's cool. Busy busy musicians.

 

[tzrider]

I found an image of the first sheet of Jesse Barish' music for the song, and I see the time is noted as 4/4.

Now that you have the time signature confirmed, see if you can hear it that way. A song like this will probably have you tapping your foot with the pulse, very likely on the quarter note. Just listen, zone out a little and tap your foot.

Measures are subdivisions of time and in rock they often feel like short musical phrases. In this tune, there is a periodic, recurring rhythmic emphasis, what we would call the downbeat. It happens every four foot taps. See if you can feel that.

 

[NorCalAthlete]

A lot, and I mean a LOT, of popular music is in 4/4. It's one of the most basic, easy, simple, consistent building blocks of music, which lends itself nicely to a variety of instruments, sounds, tunes, lyrics, etc. It also makes it easier for the average person to pick up on and follow the tune / beat. Once you get used to hearing it, it'll become far more noticeable when a song deviates from that for even a single line or brief moment.

I'd tend to agree on guitar players though...part of me feels like that's why guitar solos are so popular - the rest of the band just goes "ah fuck it go ahead we'll wait till you're done since you can't stay with us anyway..."

<---- former band nerd, piano and brass with a bit of percussion thrown in here and there. Mainly trumpet though. Fun fact - I found out recently that my old trumpet teacher had played with Sinatra back in the day. Had I known that I probably would have tried harder.

 

[JakesKTM]

Nope, but I’ll be honest with you. I can’t find the 8/8 parts in the Crimson tune. Maybe you can point out the exact time in the vid where that 8/8 starts and where it ends.

My favorite band and lineup.

So at the end of each verse section - the last measure singing "Three of a Perfect pair" ....... it goes into 7/8 timing. The rest of it 6/8.

there are no even number of beats per measure divisible by 4 in this song thus the title "Three" of a perfect pair.

 

[900ss]

Now that you have the time signature confirmed, see if you can hear it that way. A song like this will probably have you tapping your foot with the pulse, very likely on the quarter note. Just listen, zone out a little and tap your foot.

Measures are subdivisions of time and in rock they often feel like short musical phrases. In this tune, there is a periodic, recurring rhythmic emphasis, what we would call the downbeat. It happens every four foot taps. See if you can feel that.

Thank you for this very informative post. I usually tap with my hands and fingers, which drives the Mrs. batty. Sometimes my foot or feet get involved but they don't make noise.

I'm the guy you see on the freeway tapping away on the steering wheel.

I've seen people driving and whacking away at their dashboard with drumsticks, which really is not a good idea.

 

[Lorry]

Another popular song in 5/4 time is the theme to Mission Impossible.

And for the classical types, Holst's "Mars, Bringer of War".

 

[tzrider]

I'm the guy you see on the freeway tapping away on the steering wheel.

If you did find the quarter note pulse, you can also try counting other time signatures. There are very easy ways to count the patterns we usually find in popular music.

One way to look at rhythmic patterns is that they are either groups of two or three. The top number of any time signature can be cut up into some combination of these. Examples:

4/4 - we usually just count this as 1-2-3-4, but applying the above rule, we could count a measure 1-2-1-2. People seldom do this, but when you get into time signatures like 13/8, it can be helpful to break the count up. Let's put 13/8 on hold for a minute...

5/4 - usually counted as 1-2-3-4-5, 1-2-3-4-5. When learning the feel, sometimes it's easier to count 1-2-1-2-3, 1-2-1-2-3.

Above groups of 5, you more often see an 8 in the denominator than a 4. You could see either. Moving on to groups of 6, the time signature 6/8 is quite common and is often a waltz:

6/8 - could be counted straight; e.g., 1-2-3-4-5-6, 1-2-3-4-5-6. More often felt as groups of 3; 1-2-3-1-2-3, 1-2-3-1-2-3.

7/8 - could be 1-2-1-2-1-2-3, 1-2-1-2-1-2-3. Could also be 1-2-3-1-2-1-2, 1-2-3-1-2-1-2. As you count those, emphasize each "1" by making it louder than the other beats. You'll notice that the measures now have a distinctly different feel, depending on which beats you emphasize.

How might you do 13/8?