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Off the shelf fuel system cleaners - Myth or Fact?

So we have two fuel additives from them, the 44K and and another one that is considered "premium" and comes bundled with the MOA oil additive which is called CF5. 44K and CF5 are exactly the same stuff, but whatevs. 44K can also come bundled with the air induction system cleaner....now that shit I would never use on a car from anyone I gave a shit about.

44K or CF5 is probably pretty harmless. Probably comparable to Techron. Or maybe not, but at least it probably won't hurt anything.

Transmission additives on the other hand.... While I said that my shop uses damn near everything from BG, the transmission flush/additive is one thing we don't. I considered it a personal victory that I was able to keep that out of our menu. It took a lot of convincing to do it too, since all that BG stuff sure does make the P&L sheet look great to the boss. Maybe not so much with other brands, but with Honda/Acura it's best to use the exact recommended fluid and not to do any flushes of any kind. So many times, I've seen someone come in with the complaint of some intermittent wierd shift/slip, and get figure that a flush will cure it. Nope. All it does is all that new clean ATF (which has much more detergent additives than regular motor oil) circulates, breaks loose some gunk inside which promptly gets stuck in some shift solenoid somewhere. Then it blocks a shift or the computer can't regulate line pressure properly and then in a matter of weeks or even days, the car is coming back to the shop on the hook with a totally screwed transmission.
 
I wish my customers paid only $16. Even the absurdly simple "Frigi-Fresh" vent treatment we sell adds at least $50 to the bill. It's essentially spraying Febreeze into the cowl intake for the HVAC system. Takes me 15 seconds to do....and really how much is a can of Febreeze.

My morals almost have me just up and quit this shop sometimes, because I truly believe we are flat out ripping people off. I do services packed full of BG additives that soak someone for say, around $350. And the only things they get from all that which I actually believe does any good is the oil change (before the stupid additive) and a tire rotation. Something my shop used to do for less than a hundred bucks. One of the reasons I haven't bailed is that it's gonna get harder and harder to find a shop that doesn't pad in a bunch of snake oil with their services.

What's sad is how much they (BG) incentivize to push this stuff. The technicians get a $1 spiff for every different additive they use. My service writers get $5 for every one they sell. And I'm sure the service manager gets some kind of kickback for allowing this bullshit in the shop in the first place. Spiff? More like hush money to put people at ease with any conundrums they may be having because they're essentially a snake oil salesman now.
 
TheRobSJ said:
And I've diagnosed and repaired enough engines, fuel systems, and emission systems over the past 20+ years to know that I don't need any of that crap. Use quality fuel from day one, give it the whip every now and then to clear the carbon, and maintain all the filters at the proper intervals, and the engine is gonna last as long as it will. With or without all these magic elixirs.

Sometimes you do way way more harm than good. Maybe you broke loose some deposits from the valves or fuel injectors. But maybe a chunk of something got caught on a piston ring and got dragged up and down the cylinder wall a few thousand times. Or maybe that chunk got impacted into a valve seat...keeping it open and eventually burning the valve. Or maybe all those extra hydrocarbons going into the catalytic converter caused it to overheat and either melt completely or lose some effectiveness.
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You said it much better than I could. :thumbup
 
TheRobSJ said:
I wish my customers paid only $16. Even the absurdly simple "Frigi-Fresh" vent treatment we sell adds at least $50 to the bill. It's essentially spraying Febreeze into the cowl intake for the HVAC system. Takes me 15 seconds to do....and really how much is a can of Febreeze.

My morals almost have me just up and quit this shop sometimes, because I truly believe we are flat out ripping people off. I do services packed full of BG additives that soak someone for say, around $350. And the only things they get from all that which I actually believe does any good is the oil change (before the stupid additive) and a tire rotation. Something my shop used to do for less than a hundred bucks. One of the reasons I haven't bailed is that it's gonna get harder and harder to find a shop that doesn't pad in a bunch of snake oil with their services.

What's sad is how much they (BG) incentivize to push this stuff. The technicians get a $1 spiff for every different additive they use. My service writers get $5 for every one they sell. And I'm sure the service manager gets some kind of kickback for allowing this bullshit in the shop in the first place. Spiff? More like hush money to put people at ease with any conundrums they may be having because they're essentially a snake oil salesman now.
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Nicely written.:thumbup
 
pannayar said:
I used/poured 60% of that small bottle (shown in the OP) during my previous fill-up. On my commute back today, I was getting happier and happier since the first low-fuel warning (blinking orange) was not coming on at the expected 153 miles. Kept going, going and I started to think the fuel warning must be busted. And then lo, at 165 miles it came on! The next warning (solid orange) which usually comes around 175 came at 190. Finally filled up at 200.5 miles ('02 SV).

To me this is definitely about +3 to +4 mpg.

Btw, idling definitely seems better (that however could be a small figment from my imagination)

I poured the remaining 40% today, let me see how it goes.

...
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Next refill was today after 200 miles. The blinking warning was at 170 and solid at 195. That is another +5 from last time. And the refill at 200 miles was about 3.6 gallons instead of the 3.75 last time.

With my commute being exactly 40 miles each day, I have always wished I could go monday-friday w/o re-fuelling and now I can/do.

Oh these little extra happiness-es in life ;)
 
pannayar said:
Next refill was today after 200 miles. The blinking warning was at 170 and solid at 195. That is another +5 from last time. And the refill at 200 miles was about 3.6 gallons instead of the 3.75 last time.

With my commute being exactly 40 miles each day, I have always wished I could go monday-friday w/o re-fuelling and now I can/do.

Oh these little extra happiness-es in life ;)
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Air is now 30 degrees cooler than summertime, thus your motor is running more efficiently.

Do this fifty times with a control study... Fifty time with additive, fifty times without. Then compare. Is the cost of the additive amortized by the supposed better mileage?

Let me explain something about motors. The valves are coated with tar like substance in the intake tract on ALL street bikes after several thousand miles. Unless you run race gas this happens with any internal combustion motor. Additives won't remove it. I remove it by soaking them in oven cleaner or acid for a few hours and then scrubbing them with scotchbrite. The head of the valve in the combustion chamber may have baked on mung. The additive won't remove it. Generally speaking that's all the mung there is. There's nothing to "clean up", "polish", "remove" or anything like that except for the tar on the valves and the crap baked onto the head of the piston, which, again, no additive will remove. It's REALLY hard to get off. In other words, your system cleaner doesn't clean anything because the only thing to clean is basically on the valves and head, and it's not going to get knocked off by any additive. You can take the valves out and SOAK them in that stuff and it won't come off.

Want to clean the head? Ride the piss out of the bike on the track for a season. Track bikes and race bikes don't have tar deposits on the valves in the intake tract, they are clean. In the combustion chamber crap still bakes on.

If you want to clean the injectors, remove them and send them in for a real cleaning. Carbs aren't much touched by this stuff. Either the jet is clear or not, and the little ones are so small that the crap that clogs them tends to be solid and not removable with a cleaner. Bits of rubber from a fuel hose and the like. Seriously, waste of money.
 
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Back in the day I used to restore vintage motorcycles for side money. Some of those bikes had sat for over 20+ years in storage, and the fuel system was always buggered. My mentor told me about a product called 'BG44K', and I have never seen anything clean a system better than this stuff.

Fill the tank with fresh gas and twice the recommended BG44k, new battery, and kick till she starts. By the time I would get three/four blocks on a bike she would open right up.

It's not legal in CA, so you have to order it on line...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BG-44K-BG44...Parts_Accessories&hash=item4169ccff5e&vxp=mtr
 
shouldnthave said:
Back in the day I used to restore vintage motorcycles for side money. Some of those bikes had sat for over 20+ years in storage, and the fuel system was always buggered. My mentor told me about a product called 'BG44K', and I have never seen anything clean a system better than this stuff.

Fill the tank with fresh gas and twice the recommended BG44k, new battery, and kick till she starts. By the time I would get three/four blocks on a bike she would open right up.

It's not legal in CA, so you have to order it on line...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BG-44K-BG44...Parts_Accessories&hash=item4169ccff5e&vxp=mtr
Click to expand...

"Restore" :rofl
 
afm199 said:
"Restore" :rofl
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Yup... I made a small fortune doing it too. I specialized in Triton/Manx conversions.

photo.jpg


Isn't 9:35 a bit early to be drunk? :thumbdown
 
shouldnthave said:
Yup... I made a small fortune doing it too. I specialized in Triton/Manx conversions.

photo.jpg


Isn't 9:35 a bit early to be drunk? :thumbdown
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How do you make a small fortune working on bikes? Start with a big one.


Nice. I restored some Nortons, frame up. Complete rebuild of everything. Never used any fuel additive to make them run though. :laughing
 
afm199 said:
How do you make a small fortune working on bikes? Start with a big one.
Click to expand...

Glad you got the joke, and the reason I don't do it anymore.

I like to use the additive the have a base. If I could get the bike running I could tell what I was getting into before I did the tear down. If I knew the motor was toast, I would just find a new one to save a few dollars.
 
shouldnthave said:
Back in the day I used to restore vintage motorcycles for side money. Some of those bikes had sat for over 20+ years in storage, and the fuel system was always buggered. My mentor told me about a product called 'BG44K', and I have never seen anything clean a system better than this stuff.

Fill the tank with fresh gas and twice the recommended BG44k, new battery, and kick till she starts. By the time I would get three/four blocks on a bike she would open right up.

It's not legal in CA, so you have to order it on line...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BG-44K-BG44...Parts_Accessories&hash=item4169ccff5e&vxp=mtr
Click to expand...

If that stuff is illegal, then I guess I broke the law about 7 times today. And the dumpster for my shop is just a straight up felony crime scene.
 
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