OH N***A HELL NAW

[kevin 714]

Why do you hate America?

seriously tho, you can refute religion all day long. its so easy its ridiculous. abrahamic monotheism is probably the stupidiest thing humans beings have ever believed. the bible more so than anything. its just total nonesense thats been mistranslated, retranslated, added to, subtracted from, etc etc for millenia. its just stupidity. that any person can take anything written in the bible as fact or truth is beyond me.

but debating whether GOD exists, an abstract notion that has no actual meaning beyond what each person applies to it, is pointless.

 

[Corb]

I thought Krauss was especially good, although he let D'Souza, that little rat, get under his skin near the end. D'Souza and Hutchinson talked too much about their own faith, and not about the limitations of the scientific method. All they'd have to say is, "OK Krass, OK Shermer, tell me how one could design an experiment interrogating the existence of God."

Actually, this was one of the more disappointing IQ2 debates I've watched because it was all opinion and talking points.



Basically this is why krauss and Shermer were fighting a losing battle.

The point is not that science can disprove god is that it can prove the idea of god as irrelevant.
Eventually god will become the answer to a question with a better answer as it already has been the case so many times.
Basically the last question science still has to answer were god can still hide behind is how has chemistry first became biology.
Once we figured that out the edges of the puzzle is finished. Its only a matter of time.

 

[kevin 714]

The point is not that science can disprove god is that it can prove the idea of god as irrelevant.
Eventually god will become the answer to a question with a better answer as it already has been the case so many times.
Basically the last question science still has to answer were god can still hide behind is how has chemistry first became biology.
Once we figured that out the edges of the puzzle is finished. Its only a matter of time.

I actually 100% disagree with this, and I am a rather militant atheist

there are limits to what the human mind can comprehend, limits to what can even be thought. we will reach those limits (and have) long before we know al the pieces of the puzzle. in the end, the human mind evolved to survive on the plans of eastern africa, and that we developed language gave us a by product of abstract thought. but it will only go so far.

I do agree that god seems an irrelevant variable in the equation, and is generally used to fill a gap for what we dont know at the time. and that video of the creationist biologost is a pefect example. there are holes in evolution, therefor god

 

[Corb]

I actually 100% disagree with this, and I am a rather militant atheist

there are limits to what the human mind can comprehend, limits to what can even be thought. we will reach those limits (and have) long before we know al the pieces of the puzzle. in the end, the human mind evolved to survive on the plans of eastern africa, and that we developed language gave us a by product of abstract thought. but it will only go so far.

I do agree that god seems an irrelevant variable in the equation, and is generally used to fill a gap for what we dont know at the time. and that video of the creationist biologost is a pefect example. there are holes in evolution, therefor god

We might never be able to disprove the philosophical deist god. But science can absolutely prove monotheism as superstition.
Thats all I'm interested in.

 

[Karbon]

I really like this thread, bros.

If you have time, YouTube "Matt Dilahunty debate". A former evangelical that went to seminary.

 

[Reli]

There is truly no word in my vocabulary that frustrates me more than "agnostic"
I think it is one of the most misunderstood ideas out there.
Agnosticism is a philosophical position on the existence of god.
You can either accept it as reality based on FAITH
Or remain agnostic because there is no way to prove a negative.
Bertrand Russell's tea pot orbiting the sun example makes that point well

Every thinking atheist [as opposed to atheism from ignorance as a child would be] I've ever met admits agnosticism on that philosophical question.
However "atheism" describes ones relationship with the supernatural.
There is a very clearly defined difference between the way a person who believes in a god and soul and afterlife lives his life and one who does not.
Thats why there is no difference between agnostic and atheist in real life.
People that call themselves agnostic not atheist to me are people that live exactly as I do except they do not have the spine, the intellectual integrity to defend and justify their position. Its also an easy way to feel superior to both theists and atheists.
Did I mention how much I hate that word?

Spoken by someone who doesn't seem to know what agnostic means. It means someone who hasn't made up their mind one way of the other. It isn't someone who is really an atheist but doesn't have the guts to admit it, as you insinuate.

Is this subject SO important to you, that you MUST make up your mind on it, and slam everyone who hasn't? Why?

 

[moond0ggie]

I don't know about you guys, but God has proven himself to me, many times over.
I used to get in debates & try to prove God exists, but only HE can state his case to those willing to accept him as the creator.
We may all find out though, when we awaken as a spirit/ angel........NO, I don't speak to non-believers about a firey pit of hell, thats the wrong way to profess Gods love.

ps; I sometimes think that a lot of atheists are made as the result of un-answered prayers, when they really needed Him to come through.....

 

[Corb]

Spoken by someone who doesn't seem to know what agnostic means. It means someone who hasn't made up their mind one way of the other. It isn't someone who is really an atheist but doesn't have the guts to admit it, as you insinuate.

Is this subject SO important to you, that you MUST make up your mind on it, and slam everyone who hasn't? Why?

This very [to popular] misconception of "agnostic" is why I find that word so frustrating.
I'll let Penn Jillette explain it better. Hopefully he can make the point clearer.
[youtube]4_WKlttKRDw[/youtube]

 

[CoorsLight]

I don't know about you guys, but God has proven himself to me, many times over.
I used to get in debates & try to prove God exists, but only HE can state his case to those willing to accept him as the creator.
We may all find out though, when we awaken as a spirit/ angel........NO, I don't speak to non-believers about a firey pit of hell, thats the wrong way to profess Gods love.

Serious questions, and I'm honestly not trying to be a dick, in case my tone could be misinterpreted, but what is your opinion of science? Do you feel any current scientific theories clash with religious scripture or your own personal beliefs? Do you feel that science is a worthwhile human endeavor?

 

[kevin 714]

I don't know about you guys, but God has proven himself to me, many times over.
I used to get in debates & try to prove God exists, but only HE can state his case to those willing to accept him as the creator.
We may all find out though, when we awaken as a spirit/ angel........NO, I don't speak to non-believers about a firey pit of hell, thats the wrong way to profess Gods love.

ps; I sometimes think that a lot of atheists are made as the result of un-answered prayers, when they really needed Him to come through.....

this post effectively is what I was trying to say regarding god as a feeling.

regarding your PS, i can only speak for myself, but I can tell you I have never as an adult prayed. I am of the sartreian POV, that one is "doomed to be free". nothing is going to do it for you, you make your own meaning and your own life. I have never prayed, not once, nor hoped for divine intervention. ever.

I am not an atheist because of unanswered prayers.

 

[Reli]

I can't see whatever it is that you posted, because BARF settings are fucked up and don't show photos or videos for me.

I'll just stick with Webster's definition, which is:

A person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable.
Broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

 

[moond0ggie]

Serious questions, and I'm honestly not trying to be a dick, in case my tone could be misinterpreted, but what is your opinion of science? Do you feel any current scientific theories clash with religious scripture or your own personal beliefs? Do you feel that science is a worthwhile human endeavor?

For sure, I'm all for science trying to find the answers, I don't discount science in the least....I posted;

I believe God IS the author of evolution.
I'm sure he did a lot of R&D to get our planet & species to where it is today.

As a believer, I mix creation & evolution, I don't care if it goes against someones interpretation of the Bible

 

[kevin 714]

I'm of the opinion no word has meaning as a definition and all language meaning is in use.

But I've often found that most people I've heard that claim
Agnostic are really just nice atheists lol because most atheists (myself included) can come of as titanic assholes lol

Anyway regarding the poll, I think a better way to say it is 93% don't believe in established religion

 

[CoorsLight]

For sure, I'm all for science trying to find the answers, I don't discount science in the least....I posted;

As a believer, I mix creation & evolution, I don't care if it goes against someones interpretation of the Bible

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[kevin 714]

This thread needs John (dr evil)

 

[Corb]

I can't see whatever it is that you posted, because BARF settings are fucked up and don't show photos or videos for me.

I'll just stick with Webster's definition, which is:

Yes, every time this subject comes up, somebody posts the definition of the word.
It is wrong.
Atheist and agnostic are simply answers to different questions. One philosophical
"Is there a god?"
And one practical
"Do you live your life as if god exists?" or "Do you have a personal relationship with a supernatural creator?"
First question can be answered with
"Yes I have blind faith he exists" or " I do not know" [agnostic]
Second question is simply "Yes" [theist] or "No" [atheist]
There is no real difference in day to day life between those calling themselves "agnostic not atheist" and atheists.

 

[Reli]

So it's wrong according to you, huh? Nice, I like how that works.

 

[moond0ggie]

this post effectively is what I was trying to say regarding god as a feeling.

regarding your PS, i can only speak for myself, but I can tell you I have never as an adult prayed. I am of the sartreian POV, that one is "doomed to be free". nothing is going to do it for you, you make your own meaning and your own life. I have never prayed, not once, nor hoped for divine intervention. ever.

I am not an atheist because of unanswered prayers.

I think many (atheists)are though, it can be exasperating when a person prays for the most important thing in their life & God doesnt come thru for them....I've been there, but I still believe...
or it can be like others who grew up having religion jammed down their throat,
I think a lot of believers are born when they are on the skids & finally/reluctantly pray to God, "if you're out there can you please...."

 

[kevin 714]

So it's wrong according to you, huh? Nice, I like how that works.

Like I said, a words meaning is in its use, not its definition.

His point is that agnostics live their life essentially the same as atheists do, as of there isn't a god

 

[Corb]

So it's wrong according to you, huh? Nice, I like how that works.

If you would actually educate yourself on the subject more than just a quick google search you would realize I am right and the people that understand the subject agree with me.

I ought to call myself an agnostic; but, for all practical purposes, I am an atheist. I do not think the existence of the Christian God any more probable than the existence of the Gods of Olympus or Valhalla. To take another illustration: nobody can prove that there is not between the Earth and Mars a china teapot revolving in an elliptical orbit, but nobody thinks this sufficiently likely to be taken into account in practice. I think the Christian God just as unlikely

- Bertrand Russell