OMG The cost of fuel is Ridicules

[bigdood]

You realize, that these oil companies do not get their "windfall" profits from the US, in fact a majority of that comes from outside countries (a great majority) where they are paying significantly more at the pump. The US consistently ranks at the BOTTOM in terms of price/gal of gas. Would $1.50 gas be nice, sure - but its probably not going to get back there anytime soon.

I believe most of Europe pays more due to heavier taxes on fuel, not due to the fact that they are being charged more for the fuel from the oil companies

 

[carbonkid]

its a fossil fuel, stop bitching. Plus we drive motorcycles that doint take but a gallon or 2. I cant even tell wen the price rises. 9-12 dollars and im full

 

[AbsolutEnduser]

Walk through a Safeway one day and look at every item on one shelf in one corridor.

Then ask how the price goes up when fuel goes up.

You will quickly discover that every item has many fuel related price factors.

True, true, fuel price is important for food, I agree. But we want the price of fuel to increase so people stop driving .

So what would be the other solution? Why don't we just make people stop driving ANYWAY, and then we don't need to increase the price of fuel... so Mr. SafewayPrice will stay the same.

I have to be honest and say that my first reaction was hoping that it would get up to $5 a gallon to get the poser suv drivers (the ones who never use it for anything else but groceries and mall hopping) off the road.

And the notion "poser SUV driver" nowadays means basically everyone. Everyone buys an SUV ONLY for the groceries and the mall shopping. If you haven't noticed, small SUV purchases have increased.

 

[afm199]

Unfortunately we have developed a modern urban society with commute outliers that is dependent on cars. Many folks live in areas like Bay Point where you can't walk to a supermarket or grocery store or any store. Is it right? No, the corporations saw they could make money selling cars and did so. GM BOUGHT up and closed many major urban bus companies. But we are stuck with it and need to both discourage vehicle traffic, encourage altenatives ( motos, bikes, etc) and provide decent transportation.

Many European countries have seamless transportation systems. In German you can fly into Frankfurt, take the escalator down three stories in the airport and get right onto EE European first class train that will take you to France, where you can get off the train and get onto a local LRV or bus that will drop you off a few blocks at most from your destination. Try that in the US.

Last time I was in Germany I took trains all over the Rhine for sightseeing, and then to Kaiserslautern where I rented a car ( should have taken a bus) to go to Landstuhl where I lived in the sixties. Fun and cheap.

So by all means get folks out of cars, but get them into something that allows them to buy groceries.

 

[Joebar4000]

Cry me a river! It was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more expensive in the UK when I left 8 years ago, than it is right now. I think it was around 6 bucks a gallon ten years ago.

The issue is people pissing it away in ginormous gas guzzlers and living in BFE with a 100 mile commute in an Escalade.

When you think about what it has to go through before it gets to your local gas station, it's amazing it's as cheap and plentiful as it is still.

EDIT - Ernie's post said it better

 

[LongGoneJohn]

Joebar4000,

That's a crappy argument. Just because it sucked more somewhere else, doesn't mean it's good here. That'd be like me saying... women can no longer vote, but we'll let them work. Why? Well in <insert some crappy country> they can't vote OR work, so while I won't let you vote, I'll still let you work... so its good here right?!!? Wrong...

Just because it sucks more somewhere else, does not mean it doesn't suck here.

The price of fuel is ridiculous, it is rising and it will continue to do so. Yes, there are things we, as consumers, can do to lower the hit that the higher gasoline prices bring -- but some of it is just out of our hands completely.

Do I have a solution? Nope. I drive a fullsize truck and ride a motorcycle that gets 35mpg. I drive the truck more often. I put $85 in it to fill it up every two weeks and I'll probably still do the same when it's $160. I'll live...

Congested areas should have better mass transit solutions, but the large portion of this country is just -- well -- too large for mass transit to really ever work. It's simply too slow, too spread out, and not effective. Places in Europe that have great transit systems are nice and condensed. New York City has a great public transit system... because it can. It's small enough in physical size to promote that.

People like us, who live in the bay area or in suburbs will never have that option. That's the "downside" of living in a large country I suppose.

 

[Joebar4000]

Joebar4000,

That's a crappy argument. Just because it sucked more somewhere else, doesn't mean it's good here. That'd be like me saying... women can no longer vote, but we'll let them work. Why? Well in <insert some crappy country> they can't vote OR work, so while I won't let you vote, I'll still let you work... so its good here right?!!? Wrong...

Just because it sucks more somewhere else, does not mean it doesn't suck here.

The price of fuel is ridiculous, it is rising and it will continue to do so. Yes, there are things we, as consumers, can do to lower the hit that the higher gasoline prices bring -- but some of it is just out of our hands completely.

Do I have a solution? Nope. I drive a fullsize truck and ride a motorcycle that gets 35mpg. I drive the truck more often. I put $85 in it to fill it up every two weeks and I'll probably still do the same when it's $160. I'll live...

It's cheaper here than it is anywhere else in the Western world, yet it's used like it's water.

Quit complaining and start conserving instead of pissing it away, is my point.

You say there's nothing you can do about it, then in the very next paragraph, say you drive a truck that gets shitty mileage and you're going to drive it even if prices double. That's just stupid.

It's a free market - you drive up the demand, you'll pay for it.

The price isn't ridiculous, the waste is.

 

[BlacKat]

here yea go.

 

[PunkRockMonkey]

I'm sorry, but the title of this thread made me think of this...

[youtube]m75g_A731q0[/youtube]

 

[AbsolutEnduser]

... but the large portion of this country is just -- well -- too large for mass transit to really ever work. It's simply too slow, too spread out, and not effective. ...

Yep. So you should work on fixing that--the "too slow, too spread out, and not effective" part of the country. (Not on fixing the price of gas) Anyone that lives in such an area, shouldn't be complaining of the price of gas, but of your "not effective and too spread out" area.

People like us, who live in the bay area or in suburbs will never have that option. That's the "downside" of living in a large country I suppose.

You said it. That's the downside. You chose to live in the suburbs--don't complain about the price of gas.

 

[Subtle]

You chose to live in the suburbs--don't complain about the price of gas.

Part of the problem is most *experts* on TV do not understand economics. Gas is mostly an inelastic good, it is not *perfectly inelastic* but inelastic none the less .. unlike most other products. An elastic good is one that demand will fluctuate based on the price. If for example, (with everything else being equal), you have a choice to eat chicken or beef and they both cost 3 bucks per pound. You will chose whatever one you prefer. Now if the price of one of them doubles to 6, the demand for it will drop, and the demand for the lower priced one will go up. With gas, it does not matter the price, the demand for gas will remain fairly constant.

Most people you see talk about gas on tv, talk about gas as if it is an elastic demand, when it is not. People HAVE to use gas no matter what the price is, and there are only so many ways to reduce usage. There is not really much of a short term alternative for anyone, bike, walk or take mass transit but for the majority none are an option. Yes you can cut down on gas a bit, but you still have to buy it. Even if you decide to buy a hybrid, you STILL have to buy gas, and the MPG's on hybrids are not even that good. The best is what.. 46 Mpgs? and only two have broken the 40 mpg markn(may be old data on that part). They should be doing much much better than that today, but the reality is.. they WANT you dependant on gas, it is why there are no real alternatives. People say, move close to work, move to a city.. Not always an option and even if it is.. it is a LONG term option. Buy a hybrid, again not a short term solution, and by the time you sell your car and buy a new one you very well could spend MORE money than it will cost to just buy the gas.

Gas companies raise the price of gas everytime oil goes up, and they say it is because gas is a commodity and they are just following the market, even though the gas you are actually buying was made months ago when the price of oil was $30 lower lol like clockwork, oil goes up - gas goes up almost instantly.. however when oil goes down, it takes a week or so for gas prices to actually start falling. Their argument always falls down on the back side, when oil is falling.

ok enough of my inane ramblings. And no I am not bitching about the price of gas, I drive all of 5 miles to work everyday so I hardly notice it, but I really get sick of all the *experts* I see on TV that do not know what they are talking about.. of course maybe I don't either .

 

[LongGoneJohn]

Yep. So you should work on fixing that--the "too slow, too spread out, and not effective" part of the country. (Not on fixing the price of gas) Anyone that lives in such an area, shouldn't be complaining of the price of gas, but of your "not effective and too spread out" area.




You said it. That's the downside. You chose to live in the suburbs--don't complain about the price of gas.

I wasn't "complaining."

I was responding to complaints, with a thought out and reasonably written response as to why it is the way it is and the things we can't do about it -- as well as things we can do.

Your "quit your bitching" type statement perhaps should have been directed at someone else.

I've openly said, there are things we can do as consumers to lower the cost -- or at least the impact of the cost -- and there are other things we have no control over. I choose what to drive and how much fuel I consume.. and as I said, I'll continue to pay whatever the cost is to maintain that.

 

[clutchslip]

Agricultural: fertilizer, pesticides, transportation and cooling.
Canned dog food: Ink costs for label, meat, transport,
Fresh tuna: Storage, refrigeration, transport,
paper towels: ink for labels, transport, power costs to process wood.

I am sure anyone can think of five others.

Alex, I'll take plastics for the win.

Hey, anyone notice that bottled water sells for $800 a barrel???
Probably not.

U
Many European countries have seamless transportation systems.

Your definition of seamless is very, very generous. Try lugging a shitload of the the wife's junk and all your camera gear around Europe. Oh - baby.

When you think about what it has to go through before it gets to your local gas station, it's amazing it's as cheap and plentiful as it is still.

This is what people do not understand. Anyone can buy oil on the open spot market. I just don't know what you would do with a barrel of crude oil in your driveway.

Here are just a couple of costs to bring you gasoline that you are "ripped-off" on:

It costs $500,000 A DAY to rent a deep water drilling rig. That is JUST to get the stuff from the bottom of the ocean to the surface.
Oil tanker rates run from $45,000 to $90,000 A DAY to lug the goook around.
It goes on, and on, and on.

We take a lot of things for granted in the U.S., like cheap food and energy.
We are just catching up with Europe.

Sad, but true.

 

[bigdood]

We take a lot of things for granted in the U.S., like cheap food and energy.
We are just catching up with Europe.

Sad, but true.

hammer/nail. i read recently somewhere (one of the UK motorcycle mags maybe?) that in germany the TAX alone on gas works out to something like $4/gallon.

 

[Joebar4000]

I don't think Ernie was including the UK in 'seamless'

That said, I was car and bikeless for a while, and while it was painful, it was possible. The same is not true in the US, especially the western end of things, or them big plain open spaces in the middle.

Anyway, still don't think mass transit is the panacea, though it would help. It royally pisses me off that for the price of a skinny strip of lightweight tarmac, I could cycle to work next to the trainline - away from traffic, I'd get fit, I'd be using far less fossil fuels. Cost would be relatively small. EDIT - and yes I have written to them. No response yet

That's one thing in Holland that was fantastic - the bike lanes were really set up to be useful, even having their own high kurbing and railings to stop errant drivers intruding. No, can't be done across the vast distances in many places, but in urban areas I'd be a *lot* more tempted to ride my pushbike if I felt the bike lanes were safe enough from latte-wielding asshats behind the wheel.

 

[AbsolutEnduser]

I wasn't "complaining."

I was responding to complaints, with a thought out and reasonably written response as to why it is the way it is and the things we can't do about it -- as well as things we can do.

Your "quit your bitching" type statement perhaps should have been directed at someone else.

I've openly said, there are things we can do as consumers to lower the cost -- or at least the impact of the cost -- and there are other things we have no control over. I choose what to drive and how much fuel I consume.. and as I said, I'll continue to pay whatever the cost is to maintain that.

I'm going to be helpful here and offer you some things to do to help: which, for unknown reason you say "are out of your hands".

-- sell the full size truck and buy a more fuel-efficient car.
-- sell the 35mpg motorcycle
-- move closer to work, like in the city and neighborhood your department is in.

Choosing "what to drive" is very, very, very much different from it being "out of [your] hands".

Here is your quote where you say you have no choice but to drive a full-size truck . ktnxbye :

Joebar4000,

That's a crappy argument. Just because it sucked more somewhere else, doesn't mean it's good here. That'd be like me saying... women can no longer vote, but we'll let them work. Why? Well in <insert some crappy country> they can't vote OR work, so while I won't let you vote, I'll still let you work... so its good here right?!!? Wrong...

Just because it sucks more somewhere else, does not mean it doesn't suck here.

The price of fuel is ridiculous, it is rising and it will continue to do so. Yes, there are things we, as consumers, can do to lower the hit that the higher gasoline prices bring -- but some of it is just out of our hands completely.

Do I have a solution? Nope. I drive a fullsize truck and ride a motorcycle that gets 35mpg. I drive the truck more often. I put $85 in it to fill it up every two weeks and I'll probably still do the same when it's $160. I'll live...

Congested areas should have better mass transit solutions, but the large portion of this country is just -- well -- too large for mass transit to really ever work. It's simply too slow, too spread out, and not effective. Places in Europe that have great transit systems are nice and condensed. New York City has a great public transit system... because it can. It's small enough in physical size to promote that.

People like us, who live in the bay area or in suburbs will never have that option. That's the "downside" of living in a large country I suppose.

 

[mlm]

Go back to the 1970s. The Arab oil embargo and choking pollution made it real clear that we couldn't sustain poor fuel economy and pollution. Congress reacted by creating the EPA, enacting CAFE, and reducing the speed limit to 55mph.

Well...the EPA has stagnated, CAFE was bypasses by selling people "farm" vehicles, and speed limits are 75mph. On top of it all, we've turned Asia into a manufacturing centers to support our consumption, and in doing so they are now competing with us for petroleum.

Energy independence was a smart thing in the 70s, but obviously short term corporate profits were more important. We have shitty public transportation systems in this country because there were more profitable alternatives and government's policy was to help corporations turn a profit instead of helping to guide a sustainable future.

But then again, short sighted politicians are elected by short sighted voters. United we FAIL!

Tune in for the next crisis.

 

[LongGoneJohn]

I'm going to be helpful here and offer you some things to do to help: which, for unknown reason you say "are out of your hands".

-- sell the full size truck and buy a more fuel-efficient car.
-- sell the 35mpg motorcycle
-- move closer to work, like in the city and neighborhood your department is in.

Choosing "what to drive" is very, very, very much different from it being "out of [your] hands".

Here is your quote where you say you have no choice but to drive a full-size truck . ktnxbye :

Reading comprehension....

Please show me where I say, specifically, that I have no choice but to drive a big truck and the motorcycle(s) I choose to ride? I'm anxiously waiting...

SOME things are out of our hands. OTHER things are not. Obvious things like driving a car that gets better gas mileage, living closer to work and all that stuff are -- without saying (or so I thought) things that are WELL WITHIN OUR HANDS. Im not disputing that in the least. Apparently I needed to spell that out because you are sitting over there thinking that I don't know which car I drive or what bike I ride or where I live is something I can change...

There are just a whole host of other things that are NOT in our control which is also causing the cost of fuel to rapidly rise.

Why is this confusing to you?

 

[mlm]

I'm going to be helpful here and offer you some things to do to help: which, for unknown reason you say "are out of your hands".

-- sell the full size truck and buy a more fuel-efficient car.
-- sell the 35mpg motorcycle
-- move closer to work, like in the city and neighborhood your department is in.

Choosing "what to drive" is very, very, very much different from it being "out of [your] hands".

Here is your quote where you say you have no choice but to drive a full-size truck . ktnxbye :

Not that simple. The people getting soaked the most are the ones commuting from the farthest away. Their commute now costs more and their homes are worth less. Many are still financing their gas guzzlers and can't afford to trade for a more fuel efficient vehicle.

 

[AbsolutEnduser]

Reading comprehension....

etc etc..
Why is this confusing to you?

It looks to me as if you need to do better WRITING then. If two people (Jorbae4000 and I) get confused and say you're just whining about the price of gas AND YET drive a full-size truck... then I guess it's not merely MY reading comprehension... Maybe it's your writing.

That's just to clarify, OK... I apologize for being confusing to explain how YOU are confusing..

Here is the Joebar quote

You say there's nothing you can do about it, then in the very next paragraph, say you drive a truck that gets shitty mileage and you're going to drive it even if prices double. That's just stupid.

The price isn't ridiculous, the waste is.

I just love it.