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PG&E TOU Plans

UDRider said:
So when people say cycle X times. What exactly does it mean? Complete discharge and recharge? What happens after X? Capacity starts to drop?
Presumably if it's only partial discharge it counts as % of a full cycled towards X?
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I think typically you'd target 80% discharge and after the total cycles (1 cycle is discharge then charge) the battery will still have 60-70% of original capacity. Full discharge will reduce that ending capacity or subtract the number of cycles to that point, and there will be some ever-increasing degradation curve from new to that point. All this will depend on the specific mfg spec for the particular battery.

Naturally, there are factors that affect this, like rate and depth of discharge, how the batteries are charged, temperature, etc. The typical cycle range for LiFePO4 can be from 1,000 to 10,000. I also think you size the battery 3x your daily use and then multiply by the number of days storage you want. YMMV

The Tesla 13.5kWh powerwall warranty is 10 years to 70% capacity (or 37.8MWh total output). I don't know how they get that with li-ion 18650 cells (that's 2800 full discharge cycles or 3650 cycles to 76%)...
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/powerwall/powerwall_2_ac_warranty_us_1-4.pdf

The lithium-titanate-oxide (LTO) battery boasts 20k to 100k cycles.
 
Your solar system is battery backup ready. We have 2 options: 10 kW LG RESU Chem Prime and the 16kW LG RESU Chem Prime. Aside from size, the main difference is power generation. The 10kW produces up to 3800 watts, and the 16kW up to 7000 watts. Both can be stacked up to double capacity and power. For a home in SF, the 10kW seems a sufficient solution at the moment.


SolarEdge Battery backup:

The SolarEdge battery backup system is a robust and reliable system. It’s a whole house backup system, which can reload the battery during solar production during an outage. This system is expandable both in capacity and power. The Backup Unit Interface - 200A AC contactor allows whole house backup of very large critical load subpanel. Stackable inverters - up to three EnergyHub inverters (each with a battery) can be combined in parallel to provide additional backup power (2 - 10kw or 3 - 15 kW with the 10H. For 16H, 2 - 14kW, 3 - 21kW). This is similar system architecture as the Tesla Powerwall, but more reliable and readily available.



16 kW SolarEdge LG Chem RESU16 Prime (1 battery), 1 SolarEdge Inverter, 1 Controller

Gross Investment: $17,250

SGIP: $0.00

Tax credit: -$4,485 (26% ITC)

Net: $ 12,765



10 kW SolarEdge LG Chem RESU10 Prime (1 battery), 1 SolarEdge Inverter, 1 Controller

Gross Investment: $13,450

SGIP: $0.00

Tax credit: -$3,497 (26% ITC)

Net: $ 9,953
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This is what my solar guys said
 
HappyHighwayman said:
This is what my solar guys said
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Like I said earlier, you'd be wise to see what the True Up balance is. The only cost benefit for the battery will be the amount you end up owing that could have been avoided by shifting to off peak.

In our case we run pretty flat. A lot of cloudy days and AC had our end of year balance at $200. Since you said you were overproducing now I'm guessing a battery makes zero financial sense for you
 
I get what you mean if I'm not paying for electricity a battery is only good for backup which I don't need.

My neighbor indicated he wasn't paying much now and we have similar setups and identical roofs but his aren't angled (flat on roof).
 
mercurial said:
I just looked at my powerbill for my apartment, its .41 for peak, .35 for off-peak, and that's just for delivery charges :wtf

then apparently I'm buying my power from east bay community energy which tacks on another .16, and .11, respectively.

So peak rate I am now paying .57 :wtf:wtf

I feel like the rates were half this amount or less, 5 years ago.
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Power breaks down into three basic buckets: the cost to generate it, the cost to get it to you, and random government fees. The $.41 and $.35 are bundled rates which include all three buckets. With Eastbay community energy, you are not paying PG&E to generate the electricity. You have to subtract PG&E‘s generated cost and add in Eastbay community energy‘s cost. You’re probably paying somewhere near the PG&E bundled rate. Not $.57
 
Fortunately I don't use air conditioning more than a week or two a year. I just roll in a portable during Indian summer.

Am considering two window units one for bedroom one for home office....global warming and all that.
 
Just thinking about NEM3.0; huge monthly solar fees and 85% reduction in energy credits...
 
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ctwo said:
Just thinking about NEM3.0; huge monthly solar fees and 85% reduction in energy credits...
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Supposedly existing solar customers will be grandfathered in.
https://news.energysage.com/net-metering-3-0/

Ultimately, the rate structure IS unfair to non-solar customers. I expect it to change, but considering how many existing systems were financed based on current NEM policies I think it'll be a gradual process.
 
Why is it unfair? We’re spending our own money to reduce how much money we’re buying. Should we be penalized for collecting rain water?
 
HappyHighwayman said:
Why is it unfair? We’re spending our own money to reduce how much money we’re buying. Should we be penalized for collecting rain water?
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Probably because it's eating into PG&E's profits, and since they're guaranteed at least 10% profit margin, their raised rates are hitting folks who don't have solar harder. :thumbdown
 
That's on PG&E and not us :)

Sorry they're bad at their jobs.Sorry they want to privatized profits and publicize losses. Sorry they caused billions in fire damage.
 
Climber said:
All the more reason to add a battery to your system and F*ck PG&E.
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Did you read the NEM 3 article? It explains the reason the rate structure is bad for the utilities (not just PG&E). Also, pretty sure that if you live in a city you are not allowed to go off grid, not to mention that you would need massive battery power to be able to account for a string of cloudy days. The alternative would be supplementing with a gas generator which I'm sure would make the air that much more lovely

HappyHighwayman said:
Why is it unfair? We’re spending our own money to reduce how much money we’re buying. Should we be penalized for collecting rain water?
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Remember the whole "free battery" discussion :laughing NEM policies were set to encourage adoption of solar. Just like any new technology, government policies are there to encourage adoption of new technology so economies of scale can be established. It's a subsidy and like most subsidies they only make sense for a limited amount of time
 
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They are pushing to sunset the grandfather clauses in 5 years or so...

HappyHighwayman said:
Why is it unfair? We’re spending our own money to reduce how much money we’re buying. Should we be penalized for collecting rain water?
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There was something about negative environmental impacts of your roof deflecting rainwater from entering the ground, and rainwater collection is regulated in many states.

Solar installations could be taxed outright. The utility is asking for $25 plus $11 per kW, per month. For a 10kW solar array, that would be more than I pay now.
 
If they cancel our grandfather on our existing system, I'll set my thermostat to bring the house down to 75 degrees (instead of 78) before the end of our solar period to prevent the AC from kicking in during the night.
 
Climber said:
If they cancel our grandfather on our existing system, I'll set my thermostat to bring the house down to 75 degrees (instead of 78) before the end of our solar period to prevent the AC from kicking in during the night.
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I’m trying to understand what you’re saying here. I’ve understood pretty much everything covered here except this.

I’m following this thread closely particularly because I still have 9.5yrs at NEM 1.0. I installed 13kw system 10.5 yrs ago and took advantage of the 15,000 tax credit and the $7500 cash payout at the time. Above and beyond that, this system paid for itself in roughly 4.75yrs.

Also, I think HH’s stance mirrors my own pretty well. Wide enough, but not overly so.
 
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