• There has been a recent cluster of spammers accessing BARFer accounts and posting spam. To safeguard your account, please consider changing your password. It would be even better to take the additional step of enabling 2 Factor Authentication (2FA) on your BARF account. Read more here.

Relative skill: is riding a bike well more difficult than driving a car well?

C

combatwombat

are we there yet?
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Location
Alt-tabbed
Moto(s)
'06 CBR600F4i, '07 R6
Name
Jay
A guilty pleasure of mine is watching videos of bikes being pitted against fast cars a la shows like motor trends and top gear...

Having neither ridden on the tracks (yet!) nor driven on the tracks, I got to wondering... How does the amount of skill required to achieve respectable times around, say, laguna seca compare between a rider and a driver?

Is it the same? Am I comparing apples to oranges? It's an honest question and my intent is not to start a flame war. My leaning is towards bikes having a steeper learning curve, but perhaps at the top, the skill levels are more even.
 
It's always felt to me like driving and riding are, at their highest levels, essentially more about strategy rather than skill. Supporting my claim, I feel, is the fact that practically every pro racer has the same skill set.

That said, I have found it is more difficult to ride fast than drive fast. Not because it requires more skill- oh no. There are just more variables in every turn, so the strategy gets way more complicated.
 
Well, Rossi has discussed with Ferrari in joining their racing program. Maybe it wasn't serious, but no way does Tony Stewart joins a Superbike team.
 
Burning1 said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/4722304.stm
Click to expand...

I'm not sure you can say, a guy who is great at one won't be great at another, therefore the one at which he's not great is harder. IIRC, John Surtees was the only world champ at both. Even the great Mike Hailwood, top pick for GOAT before Rossi, didn't exactly set the world alight in F1. Schumacher, who is arguable the GOAT on the car side is pretty quick on a bike, but not clear that he's world champ material.

Back to the OP's question. Speaking only for me, I think it is harder to ride bikes because there is so much more going on, the tool tends to be less forgiving, and the penalty for screwing up more severe. YMMV.
 
combatwombat said:
A guilty pleasure of mine is watching videos of bikes being pitted against fast cars a la shows like motor trends and top gear...
Click to expand...
When did Top Gear ever do a serious comparison between a car and a bike?

[You are referring to the original British version rather than one of the lame knockoffs, right?]


It's significantly more difficult to ride a bike fast without crashing it than to do the same with a car. It's not that hard to take a car to 90-95% of its limits without losing control. Try that on a motorcycle without a great deal of experience and you'll be posting a crash thread before long.
 
Motorcycle are harder to drive then cars.
Especially if you have a triple cylinder engine, cuz they are inherently unstable! :twofinger
 
look at lap times, car vs bike, cars have the faster lap times at any given track.
it is easier to go faster in a car, more contact patch and more stability.
 
slowblood said:
Motorcycle are harder to drive then cars.
Especially if you have a triple cylinder engine, cuz they are inherently unstable! :twofinger
Click to expand...

:hand V4 or nothing. Triples are the rotary engines of the motorcycle world.
 
I think cars with their 4 wheels, seat belts, airbags and roll cage offer the driver an extra layer of mental confidence to take it to the limit. That's why we can see celebrities of dubious driving skills running laps on Top Gear.

Those same celebs or common Joes trying to run laps on motorcycles would fail more frequently and dramatically.
 
Cars don't fall down so more of its performance is more accessible to the average person than with bikes, but I don't think the average person understand what it means to be really fast in a car. Was it Jackie Stewart who said drivng at the edge of limit is like driving on ice? In competition, it's a razor thin line between winning and crashing spectacularly; it doesn't seem easy to me. It's more terrifying than fun.
 
I feel that it is more difficult to ride a motorcycle than it is to drive a car. Controling a car that is out of shape, sliding it around, and bringing it back, putting a car into a drift(a real drift, not what the kids think is drifting a car), all much easier in a car. Like the OP said, "a steeper learning curve".


That being said,

When you are talking about going fast, you end up talking about competition. Whether it be amongst your friends, or amongst the best in the world, that is the height that must be cleared. It may be easier to drive a car fast, but everyone else has that same "easier" vehicle to control. It is a self leveling comparison, in that you must be as fast as is possible with the vehicle you are driving.

It's a bit like playing a musical instrument. Pianos, and guitars, are easier instruments to play than are trumpets, french horns, and trombones. At the same time though, pianists, and guitarists are required to play much complex pieces of actual music than the horn section. It is much more difficult to "sound good" on a trumpet than it is to "sound good" on a piano. That doesn't mean that trumpet players are better musicians, it only changes the requirements to the musician to be considered "good". Taste notwithstanding.


It's easier to throw a rock than it is to swim. To win the Cy Young award is just as difficult as it is to win an olympic medal in the 100m freestyle; you have to be the best at it.
 
sliverstorm said:
It's always felt to me like driving and riding are, at their highest levels, essentially more about strategy rather than skill. Supporting my claim, I feel, is the fact that practically every pro racer has the same skill set.

That said, I have found it is more difficult to ride fast than drive fast. Not because it requires more skill- oh no. There are just more variables in every turn, so the strategy gets way more complicated.
Click to expand...

I think that is a very good way of stating it.

Part of reaching the top levels of each game, is also trying to keep your adrenaline in check. Staying calm, and "relaxed" while on the edge of disaster (crashing) is quite a task to learn.

In a car... I'm strapped to the seat, so I really don't have to tense up any limbs, so that allows me to just focus my mind on what I'm feeling through the car. I also have the knowledge of having a steel structure fully encasing me, so the stress of instant death is greatly reduced.

On a bike... I'm still trying to keep PARTS of my body relaxed. But in order to actually make to bike do what I need it to, I actually have to "work" my body quite seriously. This just adds to the things my mind has to keep track of, and it makes it easier to "miss" the feel of the things you need to feel while riding at the edge. That, and the fact that your body is the crumple zone, can cause quite a bit of anguish to a brain that REALLY doesn't want you to kill it.

So while both are tough to truly master, I do embrace that it's harder to do on a bike.
 
Last edited:
I try to lean into the turn with my car but it doesn't affect it much! :p

I want my race car to wheelie through the finish line. :x
 
Yeah, Jeremy Clarkson's anti-bike attitude is legendary: "I don't ride a motorcycle, of course, because I'm heterosexual."
 
DataDan said:
Yeah, Jeremy Clarkson's anti-bike attitude is legendary: "I don't ride a motorcycle, of course, because I'm heterosexual."
Click to expand...

He does this to make fun of May and Hammond who both ride.

If you have not seen the Vietnam special you really should.

Clarkson is deliberately childish, crass and bold, and it is funny even though most of the times he is making fun of himself in someway. I think his "anti-bike" attitude is much the same. He realizes by saying this he is being controversial and making himself look small minded - and doesn't care.
 
tuxumino said:
look at lap times, car vs bike, cars have the faster lap times at any given track.
it is easier to go faster in a car, more contact patch and more stability.
Click to expand...

It is easier to go faster in a car in reference to other cars, but it's a fallacy that the lap time is the indicator that it's easier to drive fast than to ride fast. You're right though, that the lap times point to total tire contact patch, stability and aerodynamics differences, as well as the extreme skills those racers have (on bike/in car).

It's relatively easier to learn to drive fast and get reasonably good at it. But to be really good, then the learning steep becomes quite steeper. I'd say it's not that easy either. I'd say the difference is not much when you get to that high point 9/10 and above.

On a motorcycle, there's one thing that even race car drivers would be weary about, to fall off. In a car, the race rider has one less thing to worry about, and not having to worry about risking a fall off helps. :)

Burning1 said:
Yeah, no kidding. I haven't seen a single episode where the bike wasn't clearly sandbagging to make the comparison interesting.
Click to expand...

The episode with the V8 Ariel Atom vs. S1000RR would be the closest thing to it... although they put both on the track at the same time. Tiff from 5th Gear was the driver and Steve Brogan (British Superbike EVO class champion) rode the bike.

Top Gear does it better where they would separate each to attempt the fastest lap alone.

Apparently, the S1000RR while lost to the Atom, beat the rest of Top Gear's lap times.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/N...0rr-second-fastest-ever-round-top-gear-track/
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top