Rider Longevity

[NeilInPacifica]

All the RIP threads have got me thinking about why some riders never end up in an RIP thread and others do, some when very early in riding, others after years of riding.

So...to those of you who have lasted many years what strategies do you use?

These are the ones I've adopted so far.

• Avoid freeways as much as possible, especially those where drivers are nuts (e.g. 101)
• Do not ride at night.
• Ride with lights on always - I also keep high beam on.
• Where a Hi-vis vest. Also use a white helmet.
• No alcohol on ride days, not even one beer.
• ATGATT - heavy duty armor and leather up and down.
• Minimize delta especially when cars are clustered, intersections, etc.
• Be able to stop within sight line - always.
• Trust no driver (or rider for that matter). e.g. check traffic before proceeding through intersection after light turns green.
• Internalize counter steering so it's instinctual.
• Split at low speed only - when traffic is jammed up, red lights, etc..
• Don't ride when tired, upset, angry, or euphoric.

 

[louemc]

Ride dirt, and work in Mud/snow/ice/sand/wind/rain.

Take on extremes, so less than extreme, is a walk in the park, easy.

 

[mrzuzzo]

A lot of it has to do with luck.

 

[gixxerjeff]

These are the ones I've adopted so far.

Just be perfect like Lou and nothing bad will ever happen.....ever.

 

[budman]

A lot of it has to do with luck.

Unfortunately this is true. However developing a good moto skill set and a really good road awareness goes along way.

Not putting yourself in stupid situations applies too.

 

[NoTraffic]

From my riding experiences, I would actually counter some of your opinions.

For me, it's the following:

- Ride your own ride. Ride 20% less than your maximum on the street.
- Be street smart, this is where I think survival of the 10% that never get into an accident leap bounds above anyone. They grew up in a busy environment not only knowing how to not get into a bad situation, but when it is about to become one, how to shake it off. This may be un-learnable after age 18.
- Be patient, the hare may win the race but the toroise wins the journey.
- Have had bad accidents to understand the impact and raw consequence of bad judgement.


I ride on the freeway, I ride at night. These are actually the two safest elements for me when I ride. What is the third? When it is raining. Cagers drive the most conservative when it is wet. Outsiders might think this is the riskiest (but if you are an experienced rider, it's the least daunting). It really depends on what kind of rider you are, and that's why I say ride your own ride. To me, if you are not competent riding on the freeway, you are still developing your street skills. It's the same as if someone who has a car license say they don't drive on the freeway because it's too dangerous. Sorry but you just lack the confidence and skill - not because it's "more" dangerous.

I've never worn a hi-vis vest or white helmet. Keep your guard up at all time, if you rely on visibility items, to me you are too late to the game. I pretend I am invisible. I'm not opposed to it, it's just that my life is worth more than relying on a flourescent jacket for people to see me. In fact, some may put their guard down because they think they can be seen which may build bad habits.

 

[flying_hun]

Anticipate. What's the road going to do? What are other road users going to do?

Awareness. Who's around? What are they doing? What are they likely to do? What are the conditions? What will be the conditions?

Create safety. Help others see you - hi viz helps, but it's not enough. Make space - just like you tell kids when coaching soccer.

Manage the portfolio of risk. When circumstances create risk, consider the risks you have the power to reduce. When traffic bunches up, hold back or filter through. When it begins to rain, slow down, or just stop until the oil is washed off. When the sightlines get short, slow down. When riders behind you want to go faster, get out of the way. Etc.

 

[Z3n]

Here's the biggest trick to staying safe:

Don't ride fast. You can ride quickly, but not fast. My general rule of thumb is if i can't navigate whatever I'm doing with one hand on the bars I'm probably riding too fast for the street.

I'll go faster when I'm having fun, but for normal, baseline, day to day riding, anything I couldn't navigate in my sleep is probably too fast. 400k miles over 11 years, no serious accidents or injuries. Haven't had a street crash in ~7 years, couple of track crashes, the usual drops offroad.

 

[Caddywumpus]

Never bring your A game to the street. If you are pushing it you are limiting your escape options.

Enjoy the ride.

 

[HeatXfer]

A lot of it has to do with luck.

"The best-laid schemes o' mice an' men Gang aft agley..." ("The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry...")
​

True, although I do believe avoiding obvious hazard & peril coupled with experience we gain along the way are a big part of it too.

 

[corndog67]

Just be perfect like Lou and nothing bad will ever happen.....ever.

Lou is an actual rider. Instead of trying to ridicule everything he says, (like you and a couple others do), why not try to pick out some good hints about riding that he says. About setting up your bike for what you are doing with it. About riding in shit that you aren't comfortable riding in, until you are comfortable riding in it.

Most of what he says is to just fuck with you guys. Some of you sure take it seriously though.

 

[stangmx13]

IMO, freeways are safer than regular streets. no left-turns, cross traffic, variable speed limits, etc. so i disagree with #1.

 

[danate]

IMO, freeways are safer than regular streets. no left-turns, cross traffic, variable speed limits, etc. so i disagree with #1.

I think freeways are a trade off. Yes there are less hazards that can cause an accident as you describe. However, if you do come off the bike, I think your likelihood of getting hit at high speed is much greater and the consequence often deadly.

 

[unirr]

NeilInPacifica edit :
* Don't make it a habit of riding at night, your vision is impaired.
* Avoid using substances that impair your judgement on ride days : beers/etc
* ATGATT
* Ride with a mindset that every driver is trying to kill you and wont signal for their actions
* Check your six when stopped
* Conduct lane splitting with sense
* Don't ride when you are not able to focus 100%

louemc :
* Responsibly take on extremes, so less than extreme, is a walk in the park, easy.
(In essence, be well versed in how to get your ass out of hairy situations.So, when they do happen, you're not sitting there like an idiot)

NoTraffic :
* Ride at a good deal less than your maximum capability on the street
* Be versed in how to handle yourself in (when shit happens) scenarios

Me :
* If you find yourself being doubtful about being able to make a corner at a certain speed, Slow the fuck down....
It's only a matter of time before you blow a corner, end up in the other lane, and get run over in a head on collision
Blow a corner? Pack it up and go home and think about the fact that you could have been dead for a week.
* Know your limits and ride below them ...
* Being able to escape 'when shit happens' situation is a big survival skill IMO and a lot of people are unaware of how bad they are at it ... don't wait until its too late to discover this... get comfortable in how to react to unexpected events

 

[budman]

Neil.

I did not pay attention to your list. It is a good one.
You are taking most of the precautions out there.
None make this endevor safe however.

Want to enhance your skill set??

Do some dirt.
Hit a track day or 50.
Drive like you are riding to increase your awareness.

I did all that and then threw in being a good human to hopefully collect some Karma points.

Good luck to you!!

 

[JakesKTM]

Having spent my formative childhood years navigating urban traffic on a bicycle and as a pedestrian, I believe I possess acute skills as a street rider in traffic. You HAVE to respect traffic PERIOD! You have to develop higher than average traffic reading skills.

Here is my short list of ABSOLUTE survival tactics. Some are controversial and not recommended by DMV etc., but then again I grew up on a 6 lane east bay thoroughfare.


1) Never loiter anywhere. Hanging out - cruising is not an option. Riding is an activity not a pastime. Complacency is your enemy.

2) Never be the first into or out of an intersection. If unavoidable - get as close to the center divider of the intersection as you go through looking as far down both directions as possible.

3) Use cars as barriers to dangers, such as intersections and left turns. Ride close to them as you proceed.

4) Show your wheel. Always let the driver know you are there. Show a wheel and make sure they know you are there if you are going to pace them or at least not pass them.

5) Always ride as close to the lane divider on a multi-lane road or highway as possible. It requires more mental energy, but you are more visible by being on the line. Vehicles will pass you faster knowing you might or could easily move across the divider. Drivers notice your position is aggressive, not "cruising." See 1st rule.

6) Know blind spot ranges. A good way to do this: when i was a kid I trolled traffic. I'd walk across the street during rush hour, in the crosswalk flipping a coin. Drop it in front of a car stopped at the light. Look at the driver and give them the hand stop gesture and dive under their front bumper disappear from their view while you pretend to look for the dropped coin. Stay low and crawl around to the passenger side without the driver seeing you and run diagonally away from the car using the blind spot to mask your escape. Watch the light turn green and the driver just sit there not knowing what to do. If you did it right, they wont move while all traffic behind saw your mischievous escape and start honking.

7) Never split a lane to the far right or left of traffic. Only split two vehicles or two lanes.

8) Ride aggressively without being overly aggressive.


Edit: Three of our four boys are exceptional dirt riders. Only one has my permission to ride the street - dirt riding skills have almost nothing to do with traffic survival. Presence of mind and judgement greatly outweighs fine motor skills on the street. I agree dirt riding and track days help develop fine motor skills, but there is little practical application to sliding a bike or getting a knee down or knowing where the grip ends. I do believe it helps keep you calmer in an emergency and develop instinctive emergency maneuvers.

 

[corndog67]

All the RIP threads have got me thinking about why some riders never end up in an RIP thread and others do, some when very early in riding, others after years of riding.

So...to those of you who have lasted many years what strategies do you use?

These are the ones I've adopted so far.

• Avoid freeways as much as possible, especially those where drivers are nuts (e.g. 101)
• Do not ride at night.
• Ride with lights on always - I also keep high beam on.
• Where a Hi-vis vest. Also use a white helmet.
• No alcohol on ride days, not even one beer.
• ATGATT - heavy duty armor and leather up and down.
• Minimize delta especially when cars are clustered, intersections, etc.
• Be able to stop within sight line - always.
• Trust no driver (or rider for that matter). e.g. check traffic before proceeding through intersection after light turns green.
• Internalize counter steering so it's instinctual.
• Split at low speed only - when traffic is jammed up, red lights, etc..
• Don't ride when tired, upset, angry, or euphoric.

Ok Niell, check it out.

I've got a few differences of opinion on your list.
I ride every night. I get off Work between midnight and 3 am.
I try to ride every day.
I ride on the freeway every day.
If you aren't comfortable riding at night, or riding on the freeway, start doing it more, you need to be confident and comfortable on the freeway. If you aren't, you will never be a competent rider.

HiViz. I don't, and I'm not saying you shouldn't, but I rely more on my riding, lane position, how fast I am traveling, and what I am seeing or doing, than on some pud seeing me. Same with wearing a white helmet. My Arai is sort of a gun metal gray, and my dirtbike helmet that I wear on the street sometimes, is white and silver. A CHP once told me that their Gold helmets draws a lot of attention, but I'm not sure how legal that is?

I'll ride with my high beam on only in the daytime when I'm splitting lanes.

I split lanes faster than most. I don't just creep by cars. And I don't split unless they are side by side. Ever.

I don't drink. Period. And I quit riding with guys that do, way too many of my friends drink and ride or smoke weed and ride.

And I tend to ride very......aggressively, or more correctly speaking, more offensively. I haul ass. I ride with focus, with purpose. Whenever I'm riding, I consider it practice. Elbows up. Strong focus, not just putting along, and I enjoy riding like that.

Good luck.

 

[Cincinnatus]

All this is great stuff (even the comment by CD67 that Lou says things just to mess with some guy's minds...), but sometimes the Force just isn't with you. Mother Nature's a bitch, Darwin always wins in the end, etc.

I was doing everything 'right' (hi-viz, low speed, full awareness, etc.), and I still got hammered into a concussion, broken ribs, & wrecked bike. Luck is out there and sometimes you'll catch some, sometimes you won't. Sucks, but there it is.

 

[Cookie Monster]

I feel like a lot of the RIP threads are due to the riders outriding their abilities and drifting out of their lanes into danger.

It's definitely scary as a new rider seeing all these threads, especially with my parents being so concerned about my riding.

I do feel that the highway is the safest place. I like to sit in the left lane, because that way I only have to worry about people in one lane cutting me off. I don't loiter along cars or in blind spots, and when passing I'll have my thumb hovering over the horn to give it a quick blast if I see cars drifting into my lane. I lane split fairly slowly, and always scan the two cars in front of me to see if they're going to drift or change lanes into me. It takes a lot of concentration but I think it's worth it.

I also like riding at night because there are fewer cars on the road (at least during the summer since it gets dark so late).

Either way, it's something I definitely think about every time I ride my motorcycle.

 

[corndog67]

I feel like a lot of the RIP threads are due to the riders outriding their abilities and drifting out of their lanes into danger.

It's definitely scary as a new rider seeing all these threads, especially with my parents being so concerned about my riding.

I do feel that the highway is the safest place. I like to sit in the left lane, because that way I only have to worry about people in one lane cutting me off. I don't loiter along cars or in blind spots, and when passing I'll have my thumb hovering over the horn to give it a quick blast if I see cars drifting into my lane. I lane split fairly slowly, and always scan the two cars in front of me to see if they're going to drift or change lanes into me. It takes a lot of concentration but I think it's worth it.

I also like riding at night because there are fewer cars on the road (at least during the summer since it gets dark so late).

Either way, it's something I definitely think about every time I ride my motorcycle.

Cookie, another difference of opinion. I don't think I've ever used my horn to get a cars attention. In 43 years and 400,000+ miles. With the sheer number of dumb bastards driving their cars with the white Apple headphones in to the number of cars with 2000 watt stereos in them, you aren't going to be heard. I think I might have beeped to signal my buddy we were turning.

And I don't hover next to cars. I get past, immediately. Even if there is a lot of traffic , I'll clear past until I find a spot to stay in with no cars.