RIP Dean Potter

[Climber]

That's an interesting question, because I think adrenaline junkies like him are wired differently. Jumping off a cliff might be his cup of coffee. Your life is how you perceive it and I'm sure he had, as he perceived it, a lot of mundane moments. I think it's tragic that he died, but as I get older i am slowly learning to be far more envious of the people who seem to have a simple grace to their life and find happiness in even the most mundane things. Those are the people that really have this "life" thing nailed.

There is a gene that effects the way we live, it is nicknamed 'the risk takers gene' and it's effect is to keep those who have it from deriving the same pleasure from doing the same thing, which drives those who have it to constantly try new things to experience pleasure from their activities.

While some portion of the population can find pleasure in doing the same things repeatedly, another portion which is certainly well represented in the motorcycle community get drawn to more dangerous sports in order to experience the pleasure that others get from less risky activities.

It's just the way we're wired.

 

[mercurial]

I historically have had that gene, although it seems to have tempered in recent years. Certainly I still have it more than most people. But I do think that most people have the ability to control it, and can change it over time; basically, that satisfaction is as much a result of life philosophy as personal inclination.

However, with Dean Potter I'm not so sure that holds true. He was way off the deep end, and seemed like a person who is neurologically unable to not take extreme risk. I do view that as a sort of mental disorder, because it causes people like him to quite often die well before their time, and as he experienced his life, I wonder if it truly felt more intense to him than what a person with a different mental chemistry might feel, about their more mundane life. Of course that's just total speculation on my part.

 

[Climber]

I historically have had that gene, although it seems to have tempered in recent years. Certainly I still have it more than most people. But I do think that most people have the ability to control it, and can change it over time; basically, that satisfaction is as much a result of life philosophy as personal inclination.

However, with Dean Potter I'm not so sure that holds true. He was way off the deep end, and seemed like a person who is neurologically unable to not take extreme risk. I do view that as a sort of mental disorder, because it causes people like him to quite often die well before their time.

Why do you ride motorcycles?

From the anti-motorcycle crowd, all of us riders are 'off the deep end' and suffer from mental illness.

It's a matter of perspective, and in Dean's case I really doubt that he was mentally ill, I think that he just considered the risks worth the reward. He was an absolutely amazing climber, pretty much on the same level as Michael Phelps in his sport and the only way you achieve that level is with total commitment.

I'm sure that he fully understood the risks before he jumped and accepted them.

 

[Yakoo752]

I'm sure that he fully understood the risks before he jumped and accepted them.

While I never got the chance to meet Dean, out of the proxy fliers I do know personally (I worked in the industry for a few years)- they all have a very real fear of crashing and it's this fear that keeps them training and exceling in their sport

(Jeb, Polli, Joke, Matthias, Florez)

 

[Kurosaki]

Why do you ride motorcycles?

From the anti-motorcycle crowd, all of us riders are 'off the deep end' and suffer from mental illness.

It's a matter of perspective, and in Dean's case I really doubt that he was mentally ill, I think that he just considered the risks worth the reward. He was an absolutely amazing climber, pretty much on the same level as Michael Phelps in his sport and the only way you achieve that level is with total commitment.

I'm sure that he fully understood the risks before he jumped and accepted them.

I get what you're saying but I'm having trouble comparing riding a motorcycle to base jumping and such from an objective point of view, not a subjective one in the way most people looking at us riders like they're a little crazy.

I think they're too very very different things.

 

[mercurial]

I wouldn't use the term "mental illness" because it's too blanket and pejorative. I just think Dean (and probably a lot of others like him) are neuro-chemically almost a completely different species. Case in point, in one of the youtube videos someone posted earlier in the thread, Dean basically says "It was a big contributor to my divorce, and my wife was the most important thing in my life. But would I climb delicate arch again even if I knew what I know now? Yes." He then seemed unable to articulate further on how and why this contradiction occurred.

 

[Johndicezx9]

As others have said, just "wired differently".

 

[tzrider]

I wouldn't use the term "mental illness" because it's too blanket and pejorative. I just think Dean (and probably a lot of others like him) are neuro-chemically almost a completely different species. Case in point, in one of the youtube videos someone posted earlier in the thread, Dean basically says "It was a big contributor to my divorce, and my wife was the most important thing in my life. But would I climb delicate arch again even if I knew what I know now? Yes." He then seemed unable to articulate further on how and why this contradiction occurred.

He also said that when he began climbing and jumping with his dog that he finally "got it," referring to the level of risk and just how certain he was (or wasn't) of the outcome. At some level he was admitting to a blind spot in his risk assessment.

Many of us have these to one degree or another. I know an awful lot of riders who will say, "always ride within your sight lines," meaning don't go so fast you can't stop in the distance you can see. Of these people, few if any of them literally do that. They may go slower than if it were a closed course, but much of the time they'd be hosed if there were a stalled dump truck just around the next corner.

 

[mercurial]

I know an awful lot of riders who will say, "always ride within your sight lines," meaning don't go so fast you can't stop in the distance you can see. Of these people, few if any of them literally do that. They may go slower than if it were a closed course, but much of the time they'd be hosed if there were a stalled dump truck just around the next corner.

I do that, and it's f'in boring! I sometimes wonder if it's even worth keeping my bike. But that's also because my bike has practically a straight exhaust and is too damn loud to ride any reasonable distance

 

[Blankpage]

Unless it at the TT or similar, riding a motorcycle shouldn't even be mentioned in the same thread as a comparison.

 

[Climber]

I get what you're saying but I'm having trouble comparing riding a motorcycle to base jumping and such from an objective point of view, not a subjective one in the way most people looking at us riders like they're a little crazy.

I think they're too very very different things.

I was re-thinking things this morning and have had a shift in my perspective on the whole incident. There does seem to be a cross-over on Deans part from the requirements for being a world class speed climber into a more destructive and risky realm and given his age of 43 it's very possible that he was feeling the effects of aging and was subconsciously trying to prove otherwise which very well could have pushed him into more risky behavior.

I know for myself, I feel more alive when I'm riding a motorcycle than most other times, I could see how that drive to feel alive could be taken to extremes as somebody gets older.

 

[Climber]

Unless it at the TT or similar, riding a motorcycle shouldn't even be mentioned in the same thread as a comparison.

Some riders in California ride at similar paces on roads around the state, just look up some of the videos of canyon riders. It's not all motorcycle riders, but there are some out there and some of them are on this board who are pushing to the edge of limits on public roads.

 

[Yakoo752]

Unless it at the TT or similar, riding a motorcycle shouldn't even be mentioned in the same thread as a comparison.

No, I get this

you can throw a leg over a moto and pick your pace

you jump off a cliff and math takes over

 

[Johndicezx9]

Unless it at the TT or similar, riding a motorcycle shouldn't even be mentioned in the same thread as a comparison.

It's not about how we view what we do, but how others view what we do on 2 wheels. Some people think it's just plain crazy to ride a motorcycle.

 

[Kurosaki]

It's not about how we view what we do, but how others view what we do on 2 wheels. Some people think it's just plain crazy to ride a motorcycle.

Well those people are wrong. As has been stated already, level or danger/risk between riding a bike and base jumping, solo climbing, etc aren't even comparable really.

Maybe I'm missing something. I'm just not jiving with the whole "well people think us riders are crazy too"

 

[Johndicezx9]

Well those people are wrong. As has been stated already, level or danger/risk between riding a bike and base jumping, solo climbing, etc aren't even comparable really.

Maybe I'm missing something. I'm just not jiving with the whole "well people think us riders are crazy too"

I know they're wrong, but LMFTFY: "well some people think us riders are crazy too".

They're out there, so I don't really don't know what else to tell ya'...

 

[tzrider]

Well those people are wrong. As has been stated already, level or danger/risk between riding a bike and base jumping, solo climbing, etc aren't even comparable really.

I think they are, if you consider that everyone draws the line in a different place. All of the things we are talking about involve a certain amount of objective danger, but also things that are within our direct control. The rider can choose his speed, the climber can choose the difficulty of the route, the jumper can choose how close to the ridge he flies. We make choices based on our sense of our own skill level.

John Bachar was an example of a guy that everyone was sure would die soloing. He finally left the Yosemite scene and just when you might have thought he was going to live into old age, he fell off a climb well below his ability. Some think he was hit by rockfall from above. Some think nerve impingement from a previous car accident compromised one of his arms. We may never know, but he was in an environment where there was no margin for error.

We think as riders that there is a lot of margin. Mostly there is, but every so often a very good rider dies doing something routine and seemingly low risk. To some outsiders to riding, motorcycles look pretty crazy. What they don't know about the nature of bikes and riding leads them to assume we have less control over the outcome than we do. When accidents happen, they reinforce that belief.

The exact same things can be said about soloing and jumping, I think. It's just a matter of skill level and how much margin there is to work within. Outsiders assume there is less margin than there is, while long time participants tend to think there is more than there is.

 

[Climber]

I think they are, if you consider that everyone draws the line in a different place. All of the things we are talking about involve a certain amount of objective danger, but also things that are within our direct control. The rider can choose his speed, the climber can choose the difficulty of the route, the jumper can choose how close to the ridge he flies. We make choices based on our sense of our own skill level.

John Bachar was an example of a guy that everyone was sure would die soloing. He finally left the Yosemite scene and just when you might have thought he was going to live into old age, he fell off a climb well below his ability. Some think he was hit by rockfall from above. Some think nerve impingement from a previous car accident compromised one of his arms. We may never know, but he was in an environment where there was no margin for error.

We think as riders that there is a lot of margin. Mostly there is, but every so often a very good rider dies doing something routine and seemingly low risk. To some outsiders to riding, motorcycles look pretty crazy. What they don't know about the nature of bikes and riding leads them to assume we have less control over the outcome than we do. When accidents happen, they reinforce that belief.

The exact same things can be said about soloing and jumping, I think. It's just a matter of skill level and how much margin there is to work within. Outsiders assume there is less margin than there is, while long time participants tend to think there is more than there is.

Nice addition to the thread!

I think that sometimes we as riders (climbers, divers, jumpers, etc.) can get lulled into taking more risks than we may realize at the time. It could be adrenaline, it could be ego, it could just be laxness in assessing the risks. Whatever the cause, it then comes down to being at the wrong place at the wrong time where the edge comes closer to us than it usually does (i.e. driver suddenly swerves in traffic, gravel on the road, etc.) and the buffer we perceived to be there suddenly evaporates and we find our self over the edge and no attractive outcomes. I have learned to not go riding when my head isn't fully there, whether from sleep deprivation or just not mentally able to fully focus.

 

[bergmen]

As a long time sport parachutist and life-long motorcyclist I can relate to the posts by tzrider and Climber very well.

It took me a while as a student to gain the confidence to be comfortable with all aspects of parachuting. When I got to my 20 second delays, it was like a light switch had flicked, I was in my realm.

As I gained experience I was (and still am) astounded that high jump wonders with outstanding reputations as leaders in the sport would go in for stupid reasons (lack of altitude awareness, tenderfoot screwup during a routine cutaway, etc.). Complacency likely was a component in some instances (thousands of jumps, no issues and a partial malfunction all of a sudden and panic sets in).

Multi-thousand hour pilots fly right into a mountain for no apparent reason (Frank Tallman for instance).

There were times that I didn't feel right about a particular jump coming up and I would pass. Couldn't put my finger on it but something was missing from my pre-jump confidence level. Sat it out, straightened it out and got on the next load. Following one's instinct or intuition was not a chicken way out, it was worthy of attention.

Having said that I have many jumps where I busted all kinds of rules (punching clouds, flying under canopy through dense fog, leaving the aircraft at dusk with a verbal from the guy that left before me to "follow me to our landing site" at a bandido jump in town - last street light on a road I'd never seen) - but never hummed it below minimum opening altitude. Okay, never except twice but both my fault.

But I always had an acceptable margin to fall back on, a way out. The wingsuit jumps by Dean and Graham had much less.

Dan

 

[fawndog]

No, I get this

you can throw a leg over a moto and pick your pace

you jump off a cliff and math takes over

I think you're glossing over how much thought goes into bungee/parachute/base jumping. Plenty of weekend riders roll the dice, although seemingly to a lesser degree, yet you can still die going fast in corners as quickly as you can die in a flight suit.