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Screw out-sourcing to India!!

Climber said:
You should be concerned if your work can possibly be out-sourced. ;)

..
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I dont have a job that can outsourced in the manner in which all of you do. I have already been outsourced by technology in many many ways.

The US not being a world power really doesnt concern me at all. People in Spain, England and other has beens seem to wake up with smiles on their faces just the same. All Empires come to an end.
 
elbacalao said:
All Empires come to an end.
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All empires come to an end?!? Let me quote the bard:

"We got the empire, now as then,
We don't doubt, we don't take reflection,
Lucretia, my direction, dance the ghost with me..."
 

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GiorgioFurioso said:
Part of the problem is we have FOUR open positions for software engineers, etc...

Where are the locals, for chrissake?!? I don't actually care where you're from. You just need to know your shit, ...
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Interesting thread. I'd like to chime in that .. you might be surprised that many 'locals' you desire, Giorgio, are inexperienced, too.

I remember you passed by me once in downtown, we nodded--well I was standing in front of this web-design company; I've heard complaints of some white folk who are hired there (and one chinese), who: can't write loops, can't get how many rows are in a DB from the Php, but have to do select * and then get the length of the PHP array.. Things like that.

Also, who mentioned "lying about projects"? Was it you or climber, I don't know: but I've heard of a ton of the same people misrepresent their projects, too, to get hired in downtown.

So, I just want to say that some "Bay Area" programmers might not be good either. Whether they moved here to the BA just recently (let's say up to 1-2 years ago), that's another question, the answer might be 'yes'.
 
it annoys me when i call tech support now and it is in india and i can barely understand what they are saying because of the accent and the call is being routed voip from a local 1-800, giving a terrible connection. nothing against the indians, but outsourcing always comes back to bite companies in the ass when their sales drop because of the local economic decline their outsourcing causes. kind of like having things made in china cheaply by children and other forms of easily exploited labour, with the shipping and tariffs, they only save a few pennies a unit, but the same local economic decline it causes will in the long run cause more of a loss for most except the few ceo's who grabbed those extra pennies. don't blame the people of the countries, blame the persons who made the decisions of self-interest.
 
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AbsolutEnduser said:
Interesting thread. I'd like to chime in that .. you might be surprised that many 'locals' you desire, Giorgio, are inexperienced, too.

I remember you passed by me once in downtown, we nodded--well I was standing in front of this web-design company; I've heard complaints of some white folk who are hired there (and one chinese), who: can't write loops, can't get how many rows are in a DB from the Php, but have to do select * and then get the length of the PHP array.. Things like that.

Also, who mentioned "lying about projects"? Was it you or climber, I don't know: but I've heard of a ton of the same people misrepresent their projects, too, to get hired in downtown.

So, I just want to say that some "Bay Area" programmers might not be good either. Whether they moved here to the BA just recently (let's say up to 1-2 years ago), that's another question, the answer might be 'yes'.
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I'd hoped that my Sisters Of Mercy post had signaled Threadjack=Complete, but I see I underestimated the power of serious discussion. In the US of A, how could that happen?? :p

Anyways...you're right, many Bay Area programmers are not up to it either. In the case of my company, we are hiring both junior as well as senior folks, but we can't seem to get either.

The thing about the Indian candidates is, according to a director here who is himself Indian, the Indian guys can answer basic questions about most technologies, but as soon as you get 2 or 3 levels deep they fall apart. And it's considered SOP to lie on your resume and learn just enough about the various APIs to be able to answer basic questions.

I really don't care where someone is from as long as they can do the job. But what really confuses me is that I haven't seen a single resume from someone born in the USA. That's plain wacky!
 
To run a genuinely good p0rn site, you have to get some sort of certificates, which are quite expensive. One of my customers actually hosts porn sites for his customers and makes a lot of money doing that !

GiorgioFurioso said:
No. (I fully realize that I just lost the attention of 99% of BARF).

On that note, many years ago in the old days of the web, I realized the awesome opportunity that pr0n represented, and I very seriously considered getting in to that biz. A lengthy battle for my very soul ensued, and unfortunately, the powers of Good won. :cry
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Here is how outsourcing affects the people who are not directly affected:

1. While companies make profits in US, instead of spending it back in the US market they go and give that money as salaries to people in different countries. This doesn't help countries already flat economy. Eventually this is going to show and impact your life in one way or other.
2. The jobs that are lost due to this again impact the economy directly. If people start getting unemployment, it would eventually put more stress on the system.
3. As Climber mentioned initially, this has forced people to cut down prices for the service, which in turn again strains the economy as people now don't have enough money to spend and the market gets all gloomy !

So yes, outsourcing does affect everyone in a larger picture.

elbacalao said:
Just a question here....if one wasnt in an industry that had a "problem" with outsourcing, why would one care that jobs are outsourced?

That not to say I'm apathetic to the situation, I'm just curious as to how some of you feel. Is not the general public getting less expensive product since the costs of said product are lower as a result of outsourcing?
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jacksingh said:
Here is how outsourcing affects the people who are not directly affected:

1. While companies make profits in US, instead of spending it back in the US market they go and give that money as salaries to people in different countries. This doesn't help countries already flat economy. Eventually this is going to show and impact your life in one way or other.
2. The jobs that are lost due to this again impact the economy directly. If people start getting unemployment, it would eventually put more stress on the system.
3. As Climber mentioned initially, this has forced people to cut down prices for the service, which in turn again strains the economy as people now don't have enough money to spend and the market gets all gloomy !

So yes, outsourcing does affect everyone in a larger picture.
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Well blue collar jobs have been outsourced for years and no one said shit about it. Garment companies right and left have closed in this country to where very very few clothing items are made here for example. Yet no one said shit. The people who WERE doing all of those factory jobs are now working somewhere else, in another field. It seems to me that now all the white collar jobs are getting outsourced, people are bitching. Such is life. I'm sorry its a pain for those of you are dealing with it. But things will work out fine for us all regardless.
 
I have been in the software/hardware biz for 30 years and own a successful software company (that is hiring). I don't participate in outsourcing in any way shape or form. I hang up immediately when my phone rings 4-5 times a day with some Indian I can hardly understand telling me he can do the job better than my employees.

Here is my take. India is one of the biggest racist countries left on the face of this earth. The disparity of the 'haves' and 'have nots' is HUGE! They train one class of people to be engineers and they take the other classes and treat them like shit. Poverty and disease are rampant in their country. They can't fix their own problems and then these 'chosen' who were trained by the government take that training and apply it outside of their country. While 3/4 of the country starves, the other 1/4 are living the American dream all because of their 'class'.

I don't see a lot of investing in the lower classes when I tune into 'India Today'. Listen to any of the BBC broadcast coming out of Town Hall meetings in Cyberbad and you'll hear that even Indians are pissed about it.


Fuck that. I won't participate in it.
</rant>
 
2legs2wheels said:
Are you going to take it full time if there is potential?
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I'm going to get a working prototype and a user focus group, then I'm going to show it around and get some angel money. I have a lot of confidence in this project, but I'm not going to quit my day job until there is some real money. But yeah, if I can get some traction, it's going to be my baby.

Regardless of investment capital, if it is successful at all, it will be generating ad revenue from pages served, just like BARF and other web sites. Obviously, I will take that as far as I can until I need to make a decision. It would be extra-sweet if I was able to grow the page views to the point where it was generating enough revenue for me to go full time without requiring investment of any kind. But I'm not holding my breath.

Only the future will tell...wish me luck! :)
 
This sounds interesting. Mind sharing what is the overall concept ?

GiorgioFurioso said:
I'm going to get a working prototype and a user focus group, then I'm going to show it around and get some angel money. I have a lot of confidence in this project, but I'm not going to quit my day job until there is some real money. But yeah, if I can get some traction, it's going to be my baby.

Regardless of investment capital, if it is successful at all, it will be generating ad revenue from pages served, just like BARF and other web sites. Obviously, I will take that as far as I can until I need to make a decision. It would be extra-sweet if I was able to grow the page views to the point where it was generating enough revenue for me to go full time without requiring investment of any kind. But I'm not holding my breath.

Only the future will tell...wish me luck! :)
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GiorgioFurioso said:
Can't really talk about it until it's ready to roll. But it is a consumer play, is conceptually quite simple, and I would personally use it all the time. As would a lot of people. :)
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Let's see...would be popular on BARF..you would personally use it all the time.... it's technology...

Hmmm, it wouldn't be a new joystick that jacks you off while you're looking at porn, would it? :laughing
 
GiorgioFurioso said:
I'm going to get a working prototype and a user focus group, then I'm going to show it around and get some angel money. I have a lot of confidence in this project, but I'm not going to quit my day job until there is some real money. But yeah, if I can get some traction, it's going to be my baby.

Regardless of investment capital, if it is successful at all, it will be generating ad revenue from pages served, just like BARF and other web sites. Obviously, I will take that as far as I can until I need to make a decision. It would be extra-sweet if I was able to grow the page views to the point where it was generating enough revenue for me to go full time without requiring investment of any kind. But I'm not holding my breath.

Only the future will tell...wish me luck! :)
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Well good luck :)

Its usually easier to succeed with venture capital as they not only provide money but also more valuable expertise (some tangible and some intangible). Not that I work in venture industry or am an expert in this area but I am somewhat in your shoes but have done it long enough to realize that its hard for a start up to succeed without venture support.
 
Actually, I know quite a few companies who are fed up with outsourcing and are moving their development back to the good ol' US of A. Some have written off the money spent on outsourcing the projects and are in process of doing new development here.

It turns out that the benefits of outsourcing were hugely overrated, and the risks were severely underestimated. Besides, it's too damn' hard to find good programmers in India or China these days. There's tons of wannabees running around. Select few who were qualified are already employed either in India or in US.
 
dude, after taking away their rightful land, i think america owe the indians

:twofinger

seriously though, i understand more for less and i don't hate on india but i detest when im speaking on the phone with someone who not only doesnt have command of the english language but has no cocept of thought or trouble shooting. no customer service skills and is going through a fucking check list. at the end of the day, my problem wasnt solved.
 
can you name the companies? I know one, apple...but have not heard of other names...

juha_teuvonnen said:
Actually, I know quite a few companies who are fed up with outsourcing and are moving their development back to the good ol' US of A. Some have written off the money spent on outsourcing the projects and are in process of doing new development here.

It turns out that the benefits of outsourcing were hugely overrated, and the risks were severely underestimated. Besides, it's too damn' hard to find good programmers in India or China these days. There's tons of wannabees running around. Select few who were qualified are already employed either in India or in US.
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