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Shifting without clutch - Question

atoyf

atoyf

Well-known member
Joined
May 30, 2004
Location
East Bay
Moto(s)
BMW
Hi,

I found out that i can upshift and downshift without pressing in the clutch - just have to press harder on the shifter pedal.

How bad is it? Obviously it is not the right way to do it otherwise there wouldn't be clutch...

What will i break evnetually if i do that? It helps alot when you want to go fast and fast through gears.

Thanks for your input
 
Do you really ride that hard on the street where you can't waste 1.2 seconds pulling in the clutch lever and releasing it?
 
I only use mine to start out from a dead stop, I have about 17k on my 929 and have been doing it since the beginning and I am still on the original clutch and she shifts sweeeeet, do it and don't worry.
 
clutch

Just like johnny says ,, don't worry , i had almost 18k on a stock 748 clutch ,,, it's all good and practice the techniquie at the track and you will see
 
well, no, i can't do it on the streets, but i do tend to ride hard on some back roads or some highways with no trafficand when I start cruising around rev limiter and i need to shft at high speeds the cluth game tend to become kind of scary - for me - rookie.

Thanks for your input guys, i really like "clutchless" shifting :cool

i didn't udnerstand this comemnt though "it's all good and practice the techniquie at the track and you will see"

so do people use clutch at the track or they just go "clutchless" shifting? I want to do it right :nerd
 
The gearbox is designed to be shifted without pulling in the clutch lever. You need to work the throttle to get smooth engagement but, you can go up or down easily without disengaging and engaging the clutch. A little practice is all that is needed. Why? It is smoother, quicker, and easier. Not to mention the fatigue on your grip if you have stiff clutch springs.
 
clutchless shifting will not damage your clutch. it could damage your transmission though if you're a real meathead about it. you can clutchless shift in a car too. hell, if you know what you're doing and you rev-match properly, it will be really smooth. i imagine it's sorta similar on a bike. that doesn't mean either vehicle likes it. i don't know though, i want to hear shawn or alan's opinion on this.
 
I thought that clutchless shifting on bikes was allowable because the gears were cut square. I know I can do it on certain bikes really smoothly but my YAMAHA never shifts nicely unless I use the clutch. Honda rulez
 
shift

since you are already shifting at the higher rev range ,, try shifting at a lower speed ,,,, just roll off the right grip a little , and snick up a gear , then roll on the once more ,, should go right in gear ,,, with practice at all speeds you will get smoother ,,,
 
johnny929 said:
I only use mine to start out from a dead stop, I have about 17k on my 929 and have been doing it since the beginning and I am still on the original clutch and she shifts sweeeeet, do it and don't worry.
Click to expand...

I have 27K on my 929's original clutch and I almost always use it to shift. I agree, though, that if done right, it doesn't hurt anything. But if you're doing it right, it should require no more effort on the shift lever than "normal" shifting. If you're having to press the lever harder than normal to shift without the clutch, you're in danger of damaging something.
 
PhaTeLeSS said:
clutchless shifting will not damage your clutch. it could damage your transmission though if you're a real meathead about it. you can clutchless shift in a car too. hell, if you know what you're doing and you rev-match properly, it will be really smooth. i imagine it's sorta similar on a bike. that doesn't mean either vehicle likes it. i don't know though, i want to hear shawn or alan's opinion on this.
Click to expand...

man, i wouldn't even come close to comparing in shifiting without clutch in a car - you will definitely burn your tranny(syncros) - i'm not saying you can't, since i've done it a few times only, but it is not the right way for sure to do it in the car and shouldn't be even discussed IMHO.

I was always able to shift without clutch on my bike, it is just goes in a gear when upshifiting and gotta be more RPM range specific when downshifiting.
 
I do it in cars once in a while and trucks all the time. Trucks, in most cases, actually shift a lot easier and smoother if you don't use the clutch. Again, if you do it properly, it doesn't hurt anything.
 
actually i never clutchless shift my car and rarely do it on the bike. i know about syncros and i always rev match to make sure i don't burn them out. i still want to hear what shawn and alan have to say as they're the resident mechanics around here.
 
donoman said:
I thought that clutchless shifting on bikes was allowable because the gears were cut square. I know I can do it on certain bikes really smoothly but my YAMAHA never shifts nicely unless I use the clutch. Honda rulez
Click to expand...

:p I can go smoothly from 1st to 6th and back down to 1st without the clutch on my YAMAHA. :nerd Maybe your Yamaha is old and needs a new crutch clutch. :laughing
 
I can also go from 1st to 6th and back down on my girlfriends SV650. But, it's not my bike, so I can do anything I want!
 
this thread was started after about 30 days of riding motorcycle ever... I ended up with 250HPs a the wheel turbo busa... and if anyone ever will find this - clutchless shifting is the way to go if you want to go fast between gears during acceleration, there simply no need to use clutch period.
 
Every bike I've owned, I clutch from a stop and sometimes at high rpm when going back into 1st to stop. I was actually taught by my Dad to not use the clutch unless you really need it on any vehicle. When I learned to ride and drive most vehicles were manual. Auto trannies were a luxury or for girly men. Don't get mad ladies it was a joke. It does take practice to be smooth. Any excuse to ride works for me, but I'm past learning the gears stage. You will get it and do what is best for you. As you become more experienced you will notice so many things change about your riding style including how you operate your bike. I have never heard of anyone saying you killed the tranny cuz you didn't clutch enough.
 
As long as you rev match there's no problem. Easy on upshifting, not so easy on down. If you are just ramming it into gear while decelerating, look forward to fixing your transmission. Bayliss used to race without clutching on his downshifts, but they rebuilt his tranny after every weekend.
 
I've always wanted to say "Holy necro-thread, Batman!"

That said, while clutchless upshifts on a motorcycle can be done very smoothly with practice, I'd never do downshifts that way. 'Just too hard on the transmission in the long run.

As for clutchless shifting of a car, it's even harder on the transmission because it puts a lot of load on the synchronizers. It's just not worth it. However, you can go half way, sort of. Shifting doesn't always require a full press/pull of the clutch. Often a partial disengagement is all that's needed to free things up enough to ease the loads on parts and still get a snappy, quick shift.
 
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