Shorai or Antigravity is better ?

[afm199]

I've used Shorai, and Bikemaster with great results.

 

[GB500guy]

I just had a weird one. 1 year old Bikemaster Lithium ion, suddenly I noticed the turn signals started dimming and fluttering erratically around 4K rpm. Bike ran fine since ignition is powered from the engine, but I finally noticed it was all battery loads losing power, not just the blinkers. Turns out battery voltage was suddenly dropping down to 7-8 volts around 3,500 - 4K rpm. Tried a different battery and all works fine. I am assuming the battery's built-in overcharge protection must have gone out of whack, dropping voltage about the time the charging system reaches max output. I put the bad battery on a mower where it's used only for starting and it works fine there, at least until something goes further wrong in its circuitry.

-Bill

 

[motomania2007]

I just had a weird one. 1 year old Bikemaster Lithium ion, suddenly I noticed the turn signals started dimming and fluttering erratically around 4K rpm. Bike ran fine since ignition is powered from the engine, but I finally noticed it was all battery loads losing power, not just the blinkers. Turns out battery voltage was suddenly dropping down to 7-8 volts around 3,500 - 4K rpm. Tried a different battery and all works fine. I am assuming the battery's built-in overcharge protection must have gone out of whack, dropping voltage about the time the charging system reaches max output. I put the bad battery on a mower where it's used only for starting and it works fine there, at least until something goes further wrong in its circuitry.

-Bill

If you measure the battery terminal voltage, is the charging system producing 14+ VDC with the bike at 2500 RPM or higher?

 

[GB500guy]

If you measure the battery terminal voltage, is the charging system producing 14+ VDC with the bike at 2500 RPM or higher?

Yes, with a good battery charging current peaks at 14.5V around 3,500 rpm and charging current goes positive above 1,100 rpm.

-Bill

 

[Tom G]

Yes, with a good battery charging current peaks at 14.5V around 3,500 rpm and charging current goes positive above 1,100 rpm.

-Bill

Does not make sense. The voltage on the battery terminals is controlled by the voltage regulator on the bike. What's inside your battery I consider that a black box, not familiars. My lead acid battery has just 6 cell inside, but with anything lithium not sure. Although my bicycle light battery has also just 3 cells inside, and came with a dedicated charger, but motorcycle batteries may be different.

 

[m0t0_ryder]

I'll never go to a lithium ion battery until someone solves the charging problems. Yes, they seem to work most of the time, but when a manufacturer gives you if's, and's or but's regarding using chargers designed for lead/acid batteries, remember that's exactly what the charging system in a motorcycle is designed for.

Your last sentence omits some facts that weigh it as invalid.
Specifically...

- Vehicle charging systems do not perform a "recovery" or "restore" mode, which places higher voltage AC (or alternating DC) into the battery. Ever.

- Vehicle charging systems do not continue charging when the vehicle is turned off. Thus they cannot overcharge a LiPo battery.

These are two things that a Lead Acid charger can do that can harm Li and LiPo batteries. Thus the manufacturers recommendations on what to avoid when charging with a charger.

 

[ST Guy]

Does not make sense. The voltage on the battery terminals is controlled by the voltage regulator on the bike. What's inside your battery I consider that a black box, not familiars. My lead acid battery has just 6 cell inside, but with anything lithium not sure. Although my bicycle light battery has also just 3 cells inside, and came with a dedicated charger, but motorcycle batteries may be different.

It makes perfect sense it it appears his charging system is working as it was designed to. With a permanent magnet system, the voltage output of the charging system at idle is often below the voltage of the battery. Then, when RPM's come up, the voltage goes to 14.4 volts or thereabouts. Sounds healthy to me.

FYI, in order to charge any battery, a minimum voltage level at the charger must be achieved. Usually, for a 12 volt lead/acid battery, this is at 13.8 volts or thereabouts. If charger output is below that thresehold level, it won't charge.

Also, depending upon the chemistry used in battery construction, individual cell voltage is different. With a lead/acid battery, that's a fully charged 1.6 volts. 1.6 x 8 = 12.8. If you have a battery with only 6 cells, that makes it a 9.6, or 9 volt battery. If it truly is a lead acid battery, and your bike is a 12 volt system, then something doesn't add up.

A lithium ion battery, to achieve 12.8 volts, requires 4 cells at 3.2 volts each. Since a lithium ion battery spends most of its life at 3.7volts per cell, that's approximately 14.8 volts per battery which is fine for bikes.

However, a lithium ion battery can be charged as high as 4.2 volts per cell which results in battery output at 16.8 volts. It will drop fairly fast to the 3.7 level though, once you start using it.

 

[johnkol]

Battery Tender makes Li-Ion batteries with a protective circuit preventing them from over-discharging. I have had their previous model (without the protective circuit) in my CBR for five years without any problems.

 

[Hooli]

I don't like the wimpy terminal posts on the Shorai. Speed Cell ftw.

 

[Tom G]

It makes perfect sense it it appears his charging system is working as it was designed to. With a permanent magnet system, the voltage output of the charging system at idle is often below the voltage of the battery. Then, when RPM's come up, the voltage goes to 14.4 volts or thereabouts. Sounds healthy to me.

FYI, in order to charge any battery, a minimum voltage level at the charger must be achieved. Usually, for a 12 volt lead/acid battery, this is at 13.8 volts or thereabouts. If charger output is below that thresehold level, it won't charge.

Also, depending upon the chemistry used in battery construction, individual cell voltage is different. With a lead/acid battery, that's a fully charged 1.6 volts. 1.6 x 8 = 12.8. If you have a battery with only 6 cells, that makes it a 9.6, or 9 volt battery. If it truly is a lead acid battery, and your bike is a 12 volt system, then something doesn't add up.

A lithium ion battery, to achieve 12.8 volts, requires 4 cells at 3.2 volts each. Since a lithium ion battery spends most of its life at 3.7volts per cell, that's approximately 14.8 volts per battery which is fine for bikes.

However, a lithium ion battery can be charged as high as 4.2 volts per cell which results in battery output at 16.8 volts. It will drop fairly fast to the 3.7 level though, once you start using it.

You are right, I inadvertently quoted Bill's other post, I meant the one where he said output 7-8 Volts.

 

[Tom G]

Battery Tender makes Li-Ion batteries with a protective circuit preventing them from over-discharging. I have had their previous model (without the protective circuit) in my CBR for five years without any problems.

I'm wondering how the do that? If your battery has has 500 CCA you would need a relay which is capable of conducting 500A, which is quite a bit. If you use a transistor then that will have a voltage drop in itself and needs to be quite heavy as well.

 

[Tom G]

Since we are talking about lithium batteries here, does anyone know how the batteries in cell phones and other small devices get charged? Does a constant voltage work? I want to install a camera with a lithium battery in a model train and charge from the tracks (14.5V AC). Just a link would help.

 

[motomania2007]

Since we are talking about lithium batteries here, does anyone know how the batteries in cell phones and other small devices get charged? Does a constant voltage work? I want to install a camera with a lithium battery in a model train and charge from the tracks (14.5V AC). Just a link would help.

I was going to suggest a usb adapter for vehicle use that converts 13-14vdc to 5 vdc and then use the 5 vdc to charge the camera as it probably uses a usb to charge anyway.

However, then I realized you said 14.5 VAC and not VDC.

If you get a full wave rectifier, you can get about 9.5 vdc from a rectified 14.5 vac without a step up transformer. The usb adapter should be able to use 9.5vdc... it would be worth some experimenting. A full wave rectifier like that can be had in a single package.

 

[kuksul08]

Since we are talking about lithium batteries here, does anyone know how the batteries in cell phones and other small devices get charged? Does a constant voltage work? I want to install a camera with a lithium battery in a model train and charge from the tracks (14.5V AC). Just a link would help.

lithium batteries need a constant current - constant voltage charge scheme based on the capacity and chemistry. If you just connect it to a voltage you're likely to cause a fire.

 

[DannoXYZ]

Since we are talking about lithium batteries here, does anyone know how the batteries in cell phones and other small devices get charged? Does a constant voltage work? I want to install a camera with a lithium battery in a model train and charge from the tracks (14.5V AC). Just a link would help.

as mentioned, in low-charge state, you want constant-current. Then as you approach full charge, +85%, switch to constant-voltage mode. Can be done with basic LM317 circuit with zener to switch modes.

 

[Tom G]

Thank you guys for the good suggestions, BARF always delivers. Google found an article about a lithium charger for small computers (Raspberry Pi). Brings up the question how the alternator in my R1200GSA would be able to deliver a constant charge current? Alternators (car and my bike) are built to deliver a constant voltage of about 14.2V up to a certain current, which depends on the RPMs, since the field current of the rotor is limited. IIRC the one in my bike is rated at 40A.

 

[norcalAF]

I used an Earth X in my Speed Triple and currently use a Shorai in my Vmax. No problems with either. I would recommend wiring your accessories to a circuit that is not powered when the key is off. For example, my phone charger and heated grips on my Vmax are wired into my fuel pump, that way they are only powered when the key is on and the bike is actually running. This way they cannot run down the battery even if they wanted to!

 

[ST Guy]

Thank you guys for the good suggestions, BARF always delivers. Google found an article about a lithium charger for small computers (Raspberry Pi). Brings up the question how the alternator in my R1200GSA would be able to deliver a constant charge current? Alternators (car and my bike) are built to deliver a constant voltage of about 14.2V up to a certain current, which depends on the RPMs, since the field current of the rotor is limited. IIRC the one in my bike is rated at 40A.

The input to most chargers is designed to compensate for varying input levels. For instance, a typical computer charger can output a constant voltage even though the wall socket you've got it plugged into could be anywhere from 100 to 130 volts AC. The same occurs with other chargers.

If you're talking about charging direct with you bike's alternator, then the battery must be a 12 volt lithium ion battery and any variances in the output voltage to the battery will be minimal.

If you want to charge at a different voltage on a bike, you need a charger that will accept a 12 volt system output to the input side of the charger and the output side of the charger will be whatever it was designed for. For instance, I installed a car charger (runs on a 12 volt system) in the right pocket of my fairing that would connect to my cell phone (somewhere around 5 volts or so).

Hope that helps.

 

[Tom G]

The input to most chargers is designed to compensate for varying input levels. For instance, a typical computer charger can output a constant voltage even though the wall socket you've got it plugged into could be anywhere from 100 to 130 volts AC. The same occurs with other chargers.

If you're talking about charging direct with you bike's alternator, then the battery must be a 12 volt lithium ion battery and any variances in the output voltage to the battery will be minimal.

If you want to charge at a different voltage on a bike, you need a charger that will accept a 12 volt system output to the input side of the charger and the output side of the charger will be whatever it was designed for. For instance, I installed a car charger (runs on a 12 volt system) in the right pocket of my fairing that would connect to my cell phone (somewhere around 5 volts or so).

Hope that helps.

Thank you ST Guy. I guess for the bike I will stick to my lead acid type battery, what the bike was designed for and what works well. Engineers rule: if it isn't broken don't try to fix it.