• There has been a recent cluster of spammers accessing BARFer accounts and posting spam. To safeguard your account, please consider changing your password. It would be even better to take the additional step of enabling 2 Factor Authentication (2FA) on your BARF account. Read more here.

sportbikes - usable power question

littlebeast

littlebeast

i feel… motivated
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Location
CA historical landmark #399
Moto(s)
the red witch + the green goblin
Name
hey you
so i'm reading up a little on the new duc 1198. this isn't necessarily a ducati question (insert your preferred marque and it's attention grabbing extreme steed here), it's more of a 'when is enough enough' question. there seems to be a 'more is better' thing going on with the numbers. is this a 'how it looks on paper' pissing contest, or does this push to reach new limits really translate into real world performance that can be used? on the road? on the track? my personal preference is for nimble mid-range motos. are these extreme - top end of the performance spectrum - bikes really that fun to ride?
 
speed is fun. it also kills. which makes doing it and surviving even more exhilarating.

I too wonder what number they will actually try and stop at. 200hp? 250? who knows, as long as they keep selling.
 
In my experience,

It depends on where you are and who you're riding with. I have a 600 and riding with other people who have 600's we go plenty fast and still keep together. My bike is also perfectly content doing so. This is regardless of what roads we're on.

Riding with liter bikes I have to ring the hell out of my 600 and I'm lucky to keep the other riders in sight if there are long, high speed sweepers. On tighter roads their extra power is useless and I'm usually 10 feet off their back tire.

That being said, I eventually want a GSXR-750 and I'll probably stick with that indefinitely.
 
Well in using the comparison of the Duc 1198, it still doesnt have the raw top end hp of the other Liter bikes. Yet the Duc 1198 on the S model will have traction control to help manage that power.

I think you will have a ton of people say no one needs anything more then a 600. But the moment you ride a liter bike, you understand. Sure for the majority, its not fully used to its potential. But get the bike on a track and you find ways to use all 190 hp, even if its in little spurts to redline, you still have alot more usable power then a 600. But then get two racers, one on a 600, one on a liter and there times willl be very similair as the bikes have their strong and weak points.

Either way, its the American way, bigger is better. As others said, more power, faster bikes, is what sells.
 
The open class bikes are fantastic bikes and a lot of fun to ride. But on the other hand they really are a little to much for the street, and a little frustrating as normally your riding around just feathering the throttle. You can have a good time at the drag strip with them. By the way at the roadrace track 90 percent of riders WILL go faster on a 600.
 
Last edited:
littlebeast said:
'when is enough enough'
Click to expand...

It's not just about enough. It's also the right tool for the right job.

Bikes that are good for roadtrips aren't necessarily a good choice for dirt. Bikes that are good on the track aren't necessarily a good choice for the street. Even bikes that are a good choice for Troy Bayliss on the track aren't necessarily a good choice for you and me on the track.

What are you looking for?
 
While I find most latest sportbikes with more than enough performance than I will ever need or can handle, I just find them "too much" for my acquired taste...

afterall, as the most mature and of sound mind on BARF, I enjoy riding the latest models in the market from japan or europe during the day yet happy to ride my humble motorcycle back home at night...

then came the 2009 Vmax...

a motorcycle that makes no sense in anyway or form...197hp with 128lbs of torque with handling expected from a 680lb beast...

and I LOVE IT...I WANT IT...I LUST AFTER IT ...I even tore down my Marie Osmand posters and put pictures of the VMax in it's place...

so with that said: a bike with appeal can be more enjoyable than a bike with all the performance...
 
Last edited:
littlebeast said:
so i'm reading up a little on the new duc 1198. this isn't necessarily a ducati question (insert your preferred marque and it's attention grabbing extreme steed here), it's more of a 'when is enough enough' question. there seems to be a 'more is better' thing going on with the numbers. is this a 'how it looks on paper' pissing contest, or does this push to reach new limits really translate into real world performance that can be used? on the road? on the track? my personal preference is for nimble mid-range motos. are these extreme - top end of the performance spectrum - bikes really that fun to ride?
Click to expand...


In a word, yes.

They are certainly not for everyone, however. And a well ridden late model 600 sportbike gives away very little on the street. But the way a literbike can literally lunge away, especially in passing situations, is (smack-like) habit forming. In a gaggle of 1000s with smart and fun riders, the sheer acceleration is stupendous in short bursts. Everyone has their own tastes and preferences, but there is just no substitute for me. My ZX12R still amazes me after all these years, every single ride.
 
one... There is also the school of thought that you need the most powerful bike for the street, because, you see, shifting is a pain and you need to be able to get out of emergencies, cruise, and do your whole trip in one gear..

Wow and I typed all that before I saw that MikeR has said the same above.

two... I think with Ducati, really the marketing , style and appeal does help sales.
 
Roadstergal said:
It's not just about enough. It's also the right tool for the right job.

Bikes that are good for roadtrips aren't necessarily a good choice for dirt. Bikes that are good on the track aren't necessarily a good choice for the street. Even bikes that are a good choice for Troy Bayliss on the track aren't necessarily a good choice for you and me on the track.

What are you looking for?
Click to expand...

i can get my head around 'the right tool for the job'. i guess what i'm having a hard time appreciating is - if there's a finite amount of space between point A and point B in any situation where you are trying to cover that distance in the shortest possible time (and i'm not talking about drag racing). acceleration (with massive quantities of torque) gets you to a braking point where you have to reel it in and basically start over again immediately. if you reach a point where you are not able to use all of the available power, does it really matter that you have it? or is the ability to use it unlimited? maybe you never reach a point where you don't use all of the available power. i seriously don't know.
 
It's all about looking good while standing in the parking lot. Most bikes sold have way more performance than can be used responsibly on the street. And a very small proportion of riders can use all that performance at the track.
 
littlebeast said:
i can get my head around 'the right tool for the job'. i guess what i'm having a hard time appreciating is - if there's a finite amount of space between point A and point B in any situation where you are trying to cover that distance in the shortest possible time (and i'm not talking about drag racing). acceleration (with massive quantities of torque) gets you to a braking point where you have to reel it in and basically start over again immediately. if you reach a point where you are not able to use all of the available power, does it really matter that you have it? or is the ability to use it unlimited? maybe you never reach a point where you don't use all of the available power. i seriously don't know.
Click to expand...

IMHO id rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

but I see what you are getting at :ride
 
BigMatt408 said:
speed is fun. it also kills. which makes doing it and surviving even more exhilarating.
Click to expand...

Speed doesn't kill, it's the sudden stop that does that. :p

There was an interesting article in one of the British bike mags that did a study between a contemporary 1000, and a 600. The average rider actually spent less time in the gas on the literbike, than he did on the middleweight.
 
littlebeast said:
if there's a finite amount of space between point A and point B in any situation where you are trying to cover that distance in the shortest possible time
Click to expand...

It all depends on what's between Point A and Point B. If it's dirt, or jumps, or tight twisty track, or big swooping track. If you want to do it in comfort. If you want to take stuff with you. Whether a bike is a good choice for a given purpose is less about the power and more about the other aspects of the bike that make it work for you for a given purpose.

littlebeast said:
if you reach a point where you are not able to use all of the available power
Click to expand...

That's part of it, too. How much can you use? Too little power can be an inconvenience on the street. Too much can hinder learning on the track. Pro riders can use every bit. The vast majority of us can't.

littlebeast said:
i've always viewed high performance as a safety feature.
Click to expand...

Again, performance isn't an absolute. High performance in one setting is suboptimal in another - and power is only one aspect of performance.
 
1198 (whatever version) has 170 peak HP and the other multi cylinder machines have round the same or more. As for the feeling of getting to speed will be different because of the delivery method of the engine. Not to mention Tq figures and production of power under the curve.

Balance the equation and you win ;)
 
My latest purchase is an inline four that puts barely more than 100 hp to the tarmac.... that's it, just a hundred horsepower....
from an engine with ONE THOUSAND, TWO HUNDRED and FIFTY-FIVE cc's!?!!

One would think that a modern Japanese bike with a 1255cc engine would be quite the screamer! The damn thing is not so much a screamer as it is just plain EASY to ride, it takes no effort, regardless of how tall a gear I'm in.

It's all about the ease with which I can pilot my Bandit. I'm actually having to learn how to change my mind set AND my riding style. With readily available torque under me, over 80 ft.lb's, I don't need to be selective about the gear I'm in. Those 80 ft.lb's are there from 3,000 rpm all the way to beyond 7,000 rpm.....!

I found ample power,
and it's packaged in a "boring" UJM with plenty torque from idle to red line. It is sooooo weird being able ride to The Junction without having to dance all over the gear box.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top