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Steering effort - why so heavy?

Gary856

Gary856

Are we having fun yet?
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Location
San Jose, CA
Moto(s)
WR250F, MTS1200, FZ1, DR650, R1250GS
Name
Gary
I’ve been riding a ’01 GS500 since January and just got a ’03 YZF600R last weekend. Today I did a back-to-back ride on the two bikes – Almaden Exwy-McKean-Uvas-Watsonville-Monterey Rd-back to San Jose.

The YZF has a pretty heavy steering (to me). It feels like it takes several pounds of strong “push” to make it lean. Being new to the YZF and the low clip-ons, it also feels like it would be hard to fight the steering (no leverage) if it ever became unstable in a corner. I feel very uncomfortable leaning this bike at speed into a tighter corner.

Right after finish riding the YZF I got on the GS, and I was like, wow, this bike has zero steering effort and zero resistance against leaning. During the first few blocks of the ride I even glanced down to make sure the handlebar was really connected to the bike, cause it felt like I was pushing against nothing. Just an ounce of push and the GS falls into the turn eagerly. It feels like it’s balanced on ball bearings – the turn in is that quick, almost like on a bicycle. You would think a bike with steering this light would be unstable, but the steering is not the least bit unstable either in the hills or on the freeway. It’s just effortless. I felt like I was riding a dual-sport or something – upright posture, comfortable, easy to control (great leverage on the handlebar). The GS just feels livelier and more fun than the YZF.

I don’t think the much heavier steering of the YZF is from the higher weight. It’s like, what, only about 60 lbs heavier than the GS, but its steering is like 10 times heavier. I think the steering is much heavier due to the geometry, for a purpose.

Obviously, 600cc sportbikes with low clip-ons are made to corner fast. If you’ve only ridden 600cc sportbike but not a GS500, you may not realize the big difference in steering effort.

My question for you guys who have ridden both a GS500 and 600cc sportbikes (full fairing inline-4 with low clip-ons in general, not just the YZF600R) is, is the steering of all 600cc sportbikes so heavy, or are some of them MUCH lighter/heavier than others? How did you like the feel of the low clip-ons in the corners when you first started, how did you build up your confidence in fast/tight corners, and how do you feel after riding it for a while?
 
There are many factors involved.....steering geometry, tires, pressure, etc., etc. But one of the factors that's overlooked a lot is the width of the handlebars. This makes a huge difference. It's a leverage thing. Measure the two bike's bars from grip to grip and I'll bet there's a big difference. But it's likely not the only reason.
 
Honestly my buell is a bit more lively with its big wide after market bars but the R6 wasnt far behind...

The key is to lean forward, if your upright your pushing down on the bar, if you lean down you will be able to push the bar in the direction of motion more. The sport bikes also like some body weighting buts not necessary.

Could be difference in tire or tire pressure? Front to low maybe?
 
I must ask the obvious. You checked your tire pressure? The steering head is moving freely?

Sport bikes vary a lot in steering. The suspension may need to be adjusted.

You don't have as much leverage with the lower (maybe narrower) sport bars. If you do all your steering with the handlebars, this will make it more noticeable. If, like me, you use your feet and body more, to help turn, the steering won't seem as different from bike to bike.
 
First three posts say very similar things. Gee, I wonder why?
:laughing

EDIT:

Make sure you are pushing FORWARD and not pushing DOWN on the lower bars. You may need to change your arm or body position.

(I know it was said. I was just making sure that it was clear.) :)
 
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Haha yeah it really can only be a number of things.

Unless the bearings are not smooth its either tires or your not used to the body position needed to ride a bike with low bars...

Watch the pro's ;), they snap into turns no problem.
 
The thundercat is a pig, close to 500lbs wet, it is significanly more work in the twisties than a GS500.
the lower narrower clip ons only amplify this feeling.
It'll take a little time to get used to the yzf600r, their fine street bikes, but you'll ride it differently than the GS.
the thundercat has gobs more power, kep it in a lower gear with higher revs and it'll seem a little more nimble.
 
Gary856 said:
it also feels like it would be hard to fight the steering (no leverage) if it ever became unstable in a corner.
Click to expand...

Thank god that will never be an issue, since motorcycles do not become unstable, and fighting the stearing is always a bad thing
 
the grinch said:
All true, the gyroscopic effects of the motor are in more of a balance
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Including on a twin?

Hmmm Ill have to try that, there is a nice twisty road that I was riding in 2nd the other day and the bike felt ehhh... not as snappy as it does on slightly faster roads.

Probably just me not being an ace rider but it will be interesting to see how it rides in 1st.

The buell has the torque to ride it in 2nd but I dont think the rev's would be to high in 1st.
 
More noticable on an inline four, on a twin like a duc, the pistons move in line with the frame. The pistons moving up and down are a huge force acting on the bike. On an inline four mounted across the frame, the pistons motion is trying to make the bike twist back an forth around its axis.
 
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jraice said:
Is that sarcastic or will that really effect handling?
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doesn't really effect handling but it'll make corner exists feel sharper, plus because it's a larger heavier bike you can't carry as much corner speed, at least I can't
 
the grinch said:
More noticable on an inline four, on a twin like a duc, the pistons move in line with the frame. The pistons moving up and down are a huge force acting on the bike. On an inline four mounted across the frame, the pistons motion is trying to make the bike twist back an forth around its axis.
Click to expand...

My bike is not a duc, pistons are somewhat up and down ;).

But yeah, to the OP.

Tires and body position!
 
tuxumino said:
doesn't really effect handling but it'll make corner exists feel sharper, plus because it's a larger heavier bike you can't carry as much corner speed, at least I can't
Click to expand...

Oh yes it does! I ride busa, big heavy motor parts moving around, it absolutely turns in easier if I keep the revs up
 
The faster a motor spins, the more gyroscopic stability it has, the less inclined it is to change direction. Heavier components and higher rpm's compound this effect.
 
Gary856 said:
The YZF has a pretty heavy steering (to me). It feels like it takes several pounds of strong “push” to make it lean.
Click to expand...

How many miles do the YZF's tires have on them? If they have a lot of miles, especially a bunch of straight line riding, the tires may be "flat spotted" which causes the steering to be annoyingly difficult.

Along with making sure the tire pressure is correct, everything is aligned properly, suspension settings are not all jacked up, etc etc.
 
I can always tell when the BMW gets a little low on air pressure, because the steering gets really heavy and sticky. When the tire heats up it usually goes away, but that's when I know its a bit low in the first place.

Check your pressure...
 
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