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tenant issue

Sharky said:
Be careful with move in evictions or any type of eviction in SF for that matter. The rent ordinace provides for atty fees and treble damages if you mess up. Best seek out a good local landlord/tenant attorney. Any way you look at it, it is going to cost thousands to get a tenant out.
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+113948252484959245720403942529854234
 
Meter Man said:
My understanding is that rent can be raised the allowable limit for previous years. So say they have not raised the rent for 5 years. They can raise it by each of those years %s in order. Of course you should run it by the communists at the SF rental board.
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it's called "banking"
37.3.(2) Banking. A landlord who refrains from imposing an annual rent increase or any portion thereof may accumulate said increase and impose that amount on the tenant's subsequent rent increase anniversary dates. A landlord who, between April 1, 1982 and February 29, 1984, has banked an annual 7% rent increase (or rent increases) or any portion thereof may impose the accumulated increase on the tenant's subsequent rent increase anniversary dates.

but even when you bank increases for several years it's still pretty minimal when you have a low base rent. on the bright side, rent control in california might go down in flames next election. :teeth

cardinal03 said:
Lesson learned. Never be nice to anybody.
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i see that hastings has taught you well, young padawan :p
 
I am not an expert in tenant law, but it seems like this whole fiasco could have been avoided in the first place with a cleverly written lease that explained that the initial below market rate was intended to be temporary and that the unit would automatically increase in price to the market rate after 12 months.

Then your parents could have collected the rent in cash, allowing them discretion on when and how they would choose to enforce the increased rate.

Maybe everyone needs to get burned once before they learn their lesson, but I know that I always cover myself when it comes to situations like this. People are quick to take advantage of situations, they always learn to mentally categorize what was once a "perk" into an "entitlement".
 
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You still haven't answered whether the property is in SF or not. That is a very big deciding factor for us to answer some of your questions.

If in SF, you have mentioned that they have lived in the property for 10 years or more. Are they elderly or disabled? If so, I don't think you have any grounds to evict since you mentioned that it is 2 units and they are protected.

If you decide to Ellis Act the property, then you have to evict all of the tenants and cannot re-rent within 5 years. Elderly and disabled tenants have to have a 1 year notice and others a 120 day notice. If you do re-rent the property, all of the old tenants have first right of refusal to rent back the unit at the old rate. That and you/your parents will have to pay the tenants a relocation fee, $4500 per tenant/$13500 per unit.

Sounds messy doesn't it?? Be sure to check with a lawyer since I'm not one and I probably left something out or the figures may have been adjusted for inflation.

Oh BTW 954Rider, are you assuming SF? In SF, he cannot move in and back out after a few months. He'll have to stay for 36 months, otherwise, they can move back in at the same old rate.
 
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mercurial said:
I am not an expert in tenant law, but it seems like this whole fiasco could have been avoided in the first place with a cleverly written lease that explained that the initial below market rate was intended to be temporary and that the unit would automatically increase in price to the market rate after 12 months.

Then your parents could have collected the rent in cash, allowing them discretion on when and how they would choose to enforce the increased rate.

Maybe everyone needs to get burned once before they learn their lesson, but I know that I always cover myself when it comes to situations like this. People are quick to take advantage of situations, they always learn to mentally categorize what was once a "perk" into an "entitlement".
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Uh, in San Francisco. No.
 
When you rent in SF, it's kinda like giving a tenant a life estate. They can stay as long as they want. I have litigated these cases from the landlord side and it is almost always ugly. I had a wrongful eviction case go to trial and we won (explaining what merits a win in this situation would take too long) and my client still had to spend big dollars and another trial actually getting the tenants out.
 
Good luck with that. Let us know how it works out. :Popcorn

FWIW, you may want to try actually talking to a landlord-tenant attorney. Just a thought.:2cents

sn0rky said:
thats what i was telling them, ill just move in and get room mates or something and theyd still be making more.
thats for the help ill help them research a little more into it.
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mud said:
you may want to try actually talking to a landlord-tenant attorney.
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why would they want to do that when they can get a bunch of kitchen sink speculation and hyperbole for free? plus, the california rules of court now allow you to cite to barf posts as persuasive authority :cool
 
Snorky, consult a real estate attorney for free (not a tenant's attorney or anyone affiliated with the Tenant's Union), present them with all the information and get an estimate on total cost and length to do an Ellis Act eviction on this unit or the entire building.

With the lawyer costs in mind, suggest to your parents that they go directly to these tenants and negotiate a higher rent going forward. If these people are friends, then negotiation and coercion through tenant guilt may produce better fruit than bombing them with legal papers right out of the gate.

If the tenants refuse to pay more rent, see if they will negotiate a payment for departure. You could offer them 1/2 of the lawyer's cost if they were to leave within 3 months. I would consider even offering them all of their rent back ($8-10K). Landlords are paying tenants twice that in order to help their buildings sell with empty units.

If the tenants don't want to negotiate, increase their rent to the banked amount immediately, threaten to Ellis Act (even if the unit/building is ineligible), and then threaten to sell the building to someone who will Ellis Act these tenants and flip the property.

If your parents are elderly and gullible, it might be best for them to make you the 'property manager' and you can act as their agent without title transfer (which carries negative tax results). You can take over where their negotiations end and start dealing with the tenants yourselves. :ninjaryde

P.S. I am not an attorney but you should speak with one before you or your parents do anything.
 
antipathy said:
Snorky, consult a real estate attorney for free (not a tenant's attorney or anyone affiliated with the Tenant's Union), present them with all the information and get an estimate on total cost and length to do an Ellis Act eviction on this unit or the entire building.

With the lawyer costs in mind, suggest to your parents that they go directly to these tenants and negotiate a higher rent going forward. If these people are friends, then negotiation and coercion through tenant guilt may produce better fruit than bombing them with legal papers right out of the gate.

If the tenants refuse to pay more rent, see if they will negotiate a payment for departure. You could offer them 1/2 of the lawyer's cost if they were to leave within 3 months. I would consider even offering them all of their rent back ($8-10K). Landlords are paying tenants twice that in order to help their buildings sell with empty units.

If the tenants don't want to negotiate, increase their rent to the banked amount immediately, threaten to Ellis Act (even if the unit/building is ineligible), and then threaten to sell the building to someone who will Ellis Act these tenants and flip the property.

If your parents are elderly and gullible, it might be best for them to make you the 'property manager' and you can act as their agent without title transfer (which carries negative tax results). You can take over where their negotiations end and start dealing with the tenants yourselves. :ninjaryde

P.S. I am not an attorney but you should speak with one before you or your parents do anything.
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Rather, you should speak to an attorney before doing any of the above.
 
This is SF. You're screwed.

You're coming out of pocket for their moving expenses and at least 3 months of COMPARABLE MARKET RATE RENT. That's IF THEY ARE NOT ELDERLY. If they're old, they get free legal and will screw you over.

Been there, done that. Cost us $8k and 6 months of lost rent. Not to mention lawyer fees of about $20k.
 
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