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The Walking Dead Season 7

Disappointing season. Garbage people are garbage and make no sense, Negan is getting boring (couldn't he have just been eaten by zombie Sasha?), Rosita v Sasha was meh, final gunfight was wtf.
 
what I was wondering:

when sasha was having the visions, was it when she was still a human, or a zombie? if the latter, I wonder if that's how the other zombies think.
 
I'm bailing. I'd already skipped the last couple of episodes before the finale. Watched the finale. Quite awful and I don't see much in the way that will turn this show around.
 
Bowling4Bikes said:
what I was wondering:

when sasha was having the visions, was it when she was still a human, or a zombie? if the latter, I wonder if that's how the other zombies think.
Click to expand...

My opinion. they were her final memories as a human. In the first in-coffin scene right at the start, that was her dying. I was going to say that those scenes worked backwards to her taking the pill just before the zombie reveal, but I don't think that's accurate. All the Abraham scenes were chronological, near as I could tell. So I think the director/editors swapped the death shot and the pill popping shot so as to not reveal the twist at the beginning of the show.
 
Well that was a shitty finale.

- all thoughts of cover / concealment in a firefight went right out the window
- fucking running gun battle and Morgan's still strolling around "look at how badass I am with a staff"
- inevitable betrayal was inevitable - "we've survived and built up this huge garbage society, but go get us guns and we'll fight for you...*snicker*" - ie, you produce for us, and we produce for Negan. MLM scheme yo. They just came up on a bunch of guns.
- Point blank firefight was seriously horrible - I don't care if you're a garbageperson who's never even held a gun before, presumably there was some training and planning for this shit. You can't miss from 5 feet away.
- Rick couldn't take out the garbagewoman leader as soon as shit started? Come ON.
- Tiger was under-utilized
- I was half-expecting Negan to leave a sniper behind to harass them and take out Daryl when he stood up at the end
- 5-tons are not bulletproof. All that gunfire at the end hitting Negan's door while he's driving away flipping them off? Yeah, he dead.
- Coffin was tell-tale. Soon as they uncovered it I knew Sasha was dead.
- Only one booby-trap in the truck? Come on Rick I know you had more dynamite than that. Daisy-chain that shit and set secondaries plus ambushers on the flanks. Overlapping fields of fire, but not crossfire - don't want to hit each other.

I could go on here but meh. It's jumped the shark for me I think. What, are they really gonna drag the war out the entire next season? I better start seeing a lot more of the guerrilla tactics I've been talking about in this thread if so.
 
NorCalAthlete said:
Well that was a shitty finale.

- all thoughts of cover / concealment in a firefight went right out the window
- fucking running gun battle and Morgan's still strolling around "look at how badass I am with a staff"
- inevitable betrayal was inevitable - "we've survived and built up this huge garbage society, but go get us guns and we'll fight for you...*snicker*" - ie, you produce for us, and we produce for Negan. MLM scheme yo. They just came up on a bunch of guns.
- Point blank firefight was seriously horrible - I don't care if you're a garbageperson who's never even held a gun before, presumably there was some training and planning for this shit. You can't miss from 5 feet away.
- Rick couldn't take out the garbagewoman leader as soon as shit started? Come ON.
- Tiger was under-utilized
- I was half-expecting Negan to leave a sniper behind to harass them and take out Daryl when he stood up at the end
- 5-tons are not bulletproof. All that gunfire at the end hitting Negan's door while he's driving away flipping them off? Yeah, he dead.
- Coffin was tell-tale. Soon as they uncovered it I knew Sasha was dead.
- Only one booby-trap in the truck? Come on Rick I know you had more dynamite than that. Daisy-chain that shit and set secondaries plus ambushers on the flanks. Overlapping fields of fire, but not crossfire - don't want to hit each other.

I could go on here but meh. It's jumped the shark for me I think. What, are they really gonna drag the war out the entire next season? I better start seeing a lot more of the guerrilla tactics I've been talking about in this thread if so.
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Rick is an idiot for even trying to plan to take on a larger, stronger, more organized force on "the field of battle." He should have been taking out their outposts and scouts and supply runs and systematically fomenting FUD among the Saviors.

Also, they could have slowed the Saviors a lot by destroying the roads to Alexandria. Some big trenches or something would have prevented anyone from just driving on up to the gate en masse and well protected.
 
CABilly said:
Rick is an idiot for even trying to plan to take on a larger, stronger, more organized force on "the field of battle." He should have been taking out their outposts and scouts and supply runs and systematically fomenting FUD among the Saviors.

Also, they could have slowed the Saviors a lot by destroying the roads to Alexandria. Some big trenches or something would have prevented anyone from just driving on up to the gate en masse and well protected.
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Yeah...counting on a couple felled trees? And they carried chainsaws with them JUST FOR THAT OCCURRENCE? And Dwight didn't know they'd have chainsaws?

NorCalAthlete said:
Saviors are way too dependent on ruling through fear / intimidation, and spread too thin. Rick's group took out what looked to be like a relatively well-armed and supplied outpost with ease (minus the Maggie/Carol hiccup). And that was with far fewer numbers. Now, Rick's group has been established as pretty resourceful and badass and all, but as long as the apocalypse has been going on I find it difficult to believe there weren't other groups, especially in that region, who were smart enough to engage in some guerrilla warfare against the saviors.

For that matter, I haven't seen too many booby traps in general. If there's few enough roads for the saviors to set up an ambush and sit around waiting for Rick (presumably with people scouting and following them), then sure the Saviors have enough numbers to maintain...in a limited capacity. But it doesn't take much to dig a punji pit, and if you know they're scouting on foot you could dig several a night until their camp was surrounded by a veritable minefield of pit traps.

Taking out vehicles (fuel supplies actually lasting that long notwithstanding) is also a relatively simple matter.
- Some spike strips, homemade caltrops, etc along their egress routes from their camp?
- A tripwire linked to a tree trunk to block the road?
- Or even just digging under the road and weakening the ground so that foot traffic can cross but vehicles collapse the pavement.
- How about fertilizer explosives?
- Where's all the construction and farm equipment?
- One guy with access to a welding shop could build tank traps that would completely block off the Saviors' supply routes.
- Hell, just source a few bags of concrete from somewhere and make a shitty wall in the middle of the road overnight, then dig ditches to the sides of it so they can't drive around.

Any halfway-decently supplied group could accomplish this easily I think. Wouldn't even take that long. Set up a sniper or two to take a few potshots and hide every time they try and clear a road and you could whittle them down pretty quickly. Their society would quickly turn on itself and Negan.
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NorCalAthlete said:
To supplement my earlier post though on taking out / harassing the saviors:

Tank trap (would seriously fuck up even their lifted trucks, I didn't see Negan's guys sporting any plows on the front of their vehicles):
http://c8.alamy.com/comp/B5N8K6/ger...-site-of-the-famous-d-day-invasion-B5N8K6.jpg

Caltrops (sprinkled around between the tank traps, can be larger to go through tires or smaller to just impede foot traffic):
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1e/Caltrop.jpg/220px-Caltrop.jpg

Small punji pit:
http://www.echo23marines6569.org/files/punji.jpg.jpg

Single round booby trap: disables + audible alert:
http://www.echo23marines6569.org/files/cartridge_trap.jpg

Let alone the stuff any rural hunter could probably rig up with tree branches and whatnot. Snares and such that at the very least would seriously hamper / slow scouting efforts. Imagine scouting along and getting your foot caught in something just as a walker or two is closing in on you.

Eugene's metal head walker idea was very timely after that scrap metal scavenger group had their gladiator walker with Rick.

To take things a step further - with pretty much any of these places, I'd have cleared a swath of land around it like the prison had. A good long open area to see any dangers coming, inner and outer walls, I mean just basic castle / fortification designs.

List of shit I'd do if I wasn't trying to hide where my operation was, or if I had a large enough area that I could have both a surrounding forest and a clear base:
  • Chop down every tree in a 50-100y wide path around my base.
  • Use the lumber for making arrows, spears, punji sticks, building materials
  • Use lumber to build at least 2 walls, inner and outer, along with anti-vehicle measures
  • Reinforce vulnerable sections along likely alternate avenues of approach, booby trap others
  • Dig trenches to catch stray walkers
  • Dig fire lanes for mass clearing of herds (ie, a way to set a large fire that will burn a herd without damaging my walls and such)
  • Fireproof all my wooden walls and outer structures to prevent enemies from easily countering me with flaming arrows or something
  • Train everyone constantly. Make everyone who's physically capable a carpenter, welder, builder of some sort. Teach the theory and strategy behind the traps. Teach how to build snares. Hold regular classes on basic first aid. Gardening. Butchering. Etc.

I'm sure you guys can think of more to add but this is some really basic shit that would have prevented 90% of the problems people on the show seem to keep running into with their bases. Especially when you have a community that's grown large enough and survived long enough to get settled into a routine...I mean...you should always be improving your defenses every chance you get. I'd think the prison would have been a prime example in that for Rick. Soon as I got to Alexandria I'd have started pushing to change the walls (supports on the outside???? come on) and start clearing areas around for better lines of site. And what the fuck is up with Hilltop? "We can see for miles around from the windows at the top of the house" <always has people pulling guard down below on the fence instead>. The truck crashing through the section of wall at Alexandria would have been a key wakeup call to not rely on a single wall with no reinforcement or booby traps. Think about it - walkers wandering around would get caught in an obvious booby trap that's easy for humans to avoid, like when Rick first found Morgan holed up above that street full of booby traps. It also serves to create a kill zone for any attackers to be caught in. Funnel your enemies into it like the cannibals did with their little maze.

Again, this is all shit that here and there Rick's run into at some point, and ignored the lessons from.
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edit - The garbage people look to have had more than enough to build all of this stuff. Any hint of duplicity on their part could have been detected earlier by enlisting their help to build the traps, and integrating them with teams of Rick's own to ensure compliance. Trust but verify in most cases; in this case, don't trust and verify. Rick bet the farm on a gamble that had no safeguards. Piss poor planning. Though, over the last couple seasons, it's what we've seen from him - fly by wire, impulsive decisions, etc. He's lost. Eugene has better planning skills at this point.
 
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NorCalAthlete said:
Yeah...counting on a couple felled trees? And they carried chainsaws with them JUST FOR THAT OCCURRENCE? And Dwight didn't know they'd have chainsaws?
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? Dwight knew full well they had chainsaws, he said it would "slow them down" not stop them in their tracks.
 
NorCalAthlete said:
Didn't seem to slow them down much. Maybe I need to rewatch it but he didn't seem too sure about it when they pulled out the chainsaws either.
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One thing I learned last year while hunting in hard wind is that a strap and tow hook is way faster, easier, and quieter than a chainsaw when dealing with trees across the road.
 
CABilly said:
One thing I learned last year while hunting in hard wind is that a strap and tow hook is way faster, easier, and quieter than a chainsaw when dealing with trees across the road.
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Yeah... I was thinking the same thing. You have a huge truck - toss a strap around it and drag it back a bit. Or, build a plow/push bar for the front of your truck. Either would be faster and quieter than chainsaws.
 
NorCalAthlete said:
Any hint of duplicity on their part could have been detected earlier by enlisting their help to build the traps, and integrating them with teams of Rick's own to ensure compliance. Trust but verify in most cases; in this case, don't trust and verify. Rick bet the farm on a gamble that had no safeguards. Piss poor planning. Though, over the last couple seasons, it's what we've seen from him - fly by wire, impulsive decisions, etc. He's lost. Eugene has better planning skills at this point.
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I don't think Rick had a plan to move this early. Sasha forced his hand by going rampage.
 
You think Eugene is playing a long con and has a plan to take down the Saviors? He's clever but I think he switched sides like a coward.
 
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