Ticket for cell phone usage

[phocup]

Hey guys,

Quick question. I got a ticket for being on my cell phone while driving ( my first offense ). I however was not talking or texting but instead using my phone as a camera filming a traffic incident to show my SO how sucky my commute for that day was ( dumb reason I know ).

My question is obviously if that usage is that still a violation of the cell phone law ? If I was using an actual camera for said filming purpose I believe I would be in the clear so I'm not 100% sure if a phone camera is legal or not. My research online was also unclear on whether using your phone for non communication purposes ( ie Navigation ) was illegal or not.

Thanks.

 

[Tharkûn]

Depends on the judge, the law is poorly written

 

[Shaggy]

It will totally depend on the judge like stated above, but I think that type of usage falls under the intent of the law, which is "distracted driving". Using it as a GPS device is using it for a legitimate driving purpose. Filming a traffic accident shows that you are not focused on the road ahead, IMO.

 

[Maddevill]

I don't have an answer for you but my daughter totaled her car because she was looking at her GPS. Her mom said, " It's not her fault, I do that too"
I think first offense for cell phone should be $1000. But that's just me...

 

[Shaggy]

I don't have an answer for you but my daughter totaled her car because she was looking at her GPS. Her mom said, " It's not her fault, I do that too"
I think first offense for cell phone should be $1000. But that's just me...

There is a huge push right now for harsher penalties with distracted driving, especially related to collisions. Don't be surprised if, at minimum, distracted driving citations become moving violations in the future.

 

[phocup]

I understand your points re: the dangers of distracted driving and as a motorcyclist, I would concur.

However, IMO I was not distracted at the time. Traffic was moving 5MPH. I had left plenty of room in front of me. The phone / camera was on top of the steering wheel where so I didn't have to look down at all to see it. As 'proof' of this, in the video I was able to see the officer ahead and had plenty of time to put the phone / camera down if I wanted to but at the time I didn't really do so because I didn't believe I was doing something wrong. When the officer flagged me down, I was able to immediately comply with his request.

Put it another way.

If I had an actual camera up vs a phone camera, would you guys ticket instead for distracted driving ? If yes, would the fact that I could see you from a far enough distance to hide the camera as well as immediately comply with your request be enough proof of not being distracted ?

Either way, I think I'll fight the ticket then if the law is unclear and it is dependent on the judge. Thanks for your advice. Hope I get lucky with a nice judge.

Edit: Uploaded my video to show (1) I left plenty of space, (2) the speed of traffic was very slow, (3) position of camera / phone didn't require me to take eyes of road, (4) I spotted the officer way before he spotted me, thus had plenty of time to hide the phone if I thought I was doing something wrong, and (5) ability to immediately comply with his request. I believe my action was completely safe at the time. If anything I would imagine my daughter crying in the background is more of a distraction.

[youtube]tZXzn9GBxoU[/youtube]

 

[Gawernator]

Maybe you can get a sympathetic judge

 

[Shaggy]

The intent of the law was distracted driving, but that does not mean all distracted driving is covered under the law. For example, reading the newspaper while driving is not covered under the same law (and is also not specifically prohibited under any section).

Depending on which section you were cited for, the elements of the violation vary slightly. The law prohibits the use of cellphones while driving. It doesn't matter whether you were actually distracted or not. The only exemptions are if you are using the cell phone to report an emergency, or if you are emergency personnel using the phone in the course and scope of your duties.

Think of it like speeding on the freeway. You can safely drive faster than 65mph, but it's still illegal and subject to citation.

Not sure which section you were cited for, but the applicable sections are written as follows:

23123. (a) A person shall not drive a motor vehicle while using a
wireless telephone unless that telephone is specifically designed and
configured to allow hands-free listening and talking, and is used in
that manner while driving.
(b) A violation of this section is an infraction punishable by a
base fine of twenty dollars ($20) for a first offense and fifty
dollars ($50) for each subsequent offense.
(c) This section does not apply to a person using a wireless
telephone for emergency purposes, including, but not limited to, an
emergency call to a law enforcement agency, health care provider,
fire department, or other emergency services agency or entity.
(d) This section does not apply to an emergency services
professional using a wireless telephone while operating an authorized
emergency vehicle, as defined in Section 165, in the course and
scope of his or her duties.
(e) This section does not apply to a person driving a schoolbus or
transit vehicle that is subject to Section 23125.
(f) This section does not apply to a person while driving a motor
vehicle on private property.
(g) This section shall become operative on July 1, 2011.

23123.5. (a) A person shall not drive a motor vehicle while using
an electronic wireless communications device to write, send, or read
a text-based communication, unless the electronic wireless
communications device is specifically designed and configured to
allow voice-operated and hands-free operation to dictate, send, or
listen to a text-based communication, and it is used in that manner
while driving.
(b) As used in this section "write, send, or read a text-based
communication" means using an electronic wireless communications
device to manually communicate with any person using a text-based
communication, including, but not limited to, communications referred
to as a text message, instant message, or electronic mail.
(c) For purposes of this section, a person shall not be deemed to
be writing, reading, or sending a text-based communication if the
person reads, selects, or enters a telephone number or name in an
electronic wireless communications device for the purpose of making
or receiving a telephone call or if a person otherwise activates or
deactivates a feature or function on an electronic wireless
communications device.
(d) A violation of this section is an infraction punishable by a
base fine of twenty dollars ($20) for a first offense and fifty
dollars ($50) for each subsequent offense.
(e) This section does not apply to an emergency services
professional using an electronic wireless communications device while
operating an authorized emergency vehicle, as defined in Section
165, in the course and scope of his or her duties.

 

[NorCalBusa]

There is a huge push right now for harsher penalties with distracted driving, especially related to collisions. Don't be surprised if, at minimum, distracted driving citations become moving violations in the future.

I'd support that, with one caveat. You have to be, ya know, be "moving". Get a non-mover if using it while waiting at a stoplight, get the mover enhancement for when they are doing so.

 

[bojangle]

I understand your points re: the dangers of distracted driving and as a motorcyclist, I would concur.

However, IMO I was not distracted at the time. Traffic was moving 5MPH. I had left plenty of room in front of me. The phone / camera was on top of the steering wheel where so I didn't have to look down at all to see it. As 'proof' of this, in the video I was able to see the officer ahead and had plenty of time to put the phone / camera down if I wanted to but at the time I didn't really do so because I didn't believe I was doing something wrong. When the officer flagged me down, I was able to immediately comply with his request.

Put it another way.

If I had an actual camera up vs a phone camera, would you guys ticket instead for distracted driving ? If yes, would the fact that I could see you from a far enough distance to hide the camera as well as immediately comply with your request be enough proof of not being distracted ?

Either way, I think I'll fight the ticket then if the law is unclear and it is dependent on the judge. Thanks for your advice. Hope I get lucky with a nice judge.

Edit: Uploaded my video to show (1) I left plenty of space, (2) the speed of traffic was very slow, (3) position of camera / phone didn't require me to take eyes of road, (4) I spotted the officer way before he spotted me, thus had plenty of time to hide the phone if I thought I was doing something wrong, and (5) ability to immediately comply with his request. I believe my action was completely safe at the time. If anything I would imagine my daughter crying in the background is more of a distraction.

[youtube]tZXzn9GBxoU[/youtube]

There is no law called "distracted driving".

 

[phocup]

Hmm .. I was cited for 23123.5A .. which specifically mentions:

(a) A person shall not drive a motor vehicle while using
an electronic wireless communications device to write, send, or read
a text-based communication, unless the electronic wireless
communications device is specifically designed and configured to
allow voice-operated and hands-free operation to dictate, send, or
listen to a text-based communication, and it is used in that manner
while driving.

Since I was not using it for communication, I believe I'm in the clear ?

 

[dravnx]

Your not in the clear until you can convince a judge.

 

[Aware]

Hey guys,

Quick question. I got a ticket for being on my cell phone while driving.

Splendid. Pay the $20 and save taxpayer's money. And stop using your phone while driving. All your excuses are pathetic. Man up.

 

[Lionel Cosgrove]

Any traffic court judge worth his salt will dismiss your ticket because it doesn't meet the elements of that specific section. If I felt your use of the phone/camera was dangerous given the circumstances (and your car was moving), I would have written you a cite for 22350(a) CVC. That would have, and has been, held up in court countless times (my experience). You may have lucked out. But beware, the officer may amend your citation in court to the basic speed law. Roll the dice at your own discretion!

 

[SuperMike]

When you immediately lowered the 'camera' it made you look guilty. You should have just kept filming.

 

[TheRiddler]

Any traffic court judge worth his salt will dismiss your ticket because it doesn't meet the elements of that specific section. If I felt your use of the phone/camera was dangerous given the circumstances (and your car was moving), I would have written you a cite for 22350(a) CVC. That would have, and has been, held up in court countless times (my experience). You may have lucked out. But beware, the officer may amend your citation in court to the basic speed law. Roll the dice at your own discretion!

Spot on what I was going to say/would have done.

No (a) subsection though, just CVC 22350.

 

[mototireguy]

My gf got a cell phone ticket 3 weeks ago in SF.

She deserved it. Hope she learns her lesson.

Irony is that her car has full bluetooth setup for calls/music, a phone mount/cradle on the dashboard and I've taught her to use BT or the speaker phone option for call while driving but that fateful day the BT didn't connect, the phone rang and by instinct she grabbed the phone while a SFPD car was next to her.

 

[Butch]

Splendid. Pay the $20 and save taxpayer's money. And stop using your phone while driving. All your excuses are pathetic. Man up.

I like this.
If you are fucking with and electronic device you are distracted. Just drive. People who do not take driving seriously kill motorcyclists.

 

[NB0tt]

Put down the goddamn phone already. Stop making excuses!

 

[Lionel Cosgrove]

Spot on what I was going to say/would have done.

No (a) subsection though, just CVC 22350.

Yup, you're right. Force of habit!