Time to ban Assault Anti-Depressants

[Bay Arean]

^ so how long have you been a member?

(In John Cleese voice) "Look, I told you once."

 

[corndog67]

I went to the Brady Bunch's website and copied their talking points. arty



Alternative medicine FTW!

I tried alternative medicines for a couple different issues. There is as much hocus-pocus, as there is BS in the regular medical world. Like putting the burning incense on the ends of the acupunture needles.

I truly gave it a chance, I really did. But it did nothing for me, other than drain my wallet.

 

[DaveT319]

I'm trying to talk a close friend out of starting a lexapro regimen. Those anti-depressants scare me.

In my case, I would rather take my chances using Lexapro than to not. I have a pretty severe anxiety/panic disorder. The attacks are completely debilitating. I do not like the fog I'm in, but I'll take that over the alternative.

Sometimes they really are necessary for the user to be able to maintain a decent quality of life. I do agree, though, that they are over-prescribed, especially to teenagers.

 

[Lovedoc]

You're right, except for the part about wanting to protect Big Pharma from tort suits in order to keep the price of prescription drugs down. Without the FDA, drugs would be cheaper and more varied - you could find a small-production drug specific for your malady, rather than being forced to choose a mass-production "does everything with every possible side effect" drug like we have now.

The lethal shit that would hit the market without the FDA approval process is scary. Forcing the manufacturers to prove their claims before they market a drug isn't a big deal, the FTC does the same thing for mouthwash and butt-enhancing shoes.

The tort system simply isn't adequate when it comes to medical outcomes. Juries aren't capable of understanding the biochemistry and statistics involved anymore than your dog knows how your TV works, and the law isn't written to reflect subtilties.

The FDA does get the science. The drug companies certainly wouldn't track and report adverse effects to the public without somebody holding feet to fire.

 

[planegray]

The lethal shit that would hit the market without the FDA approval process is scary. Forcing the manufacturers to prove their claims before they market a drug isn't a big deal, the FTC does the same thing for mouthwash and butt-enhancing shoes.

The tort system simply isn't adequate when it comes to medical outcomes. Juries aren't capable of understanding the biochemistry and statistics involved anymore than your dog knows how your TV works, and the law isn't written to reflect subtilties.

The FDA does get the science. The drug companies certainly wouldn't track and report adverse effects to the public without somebody holding feet to fire.

You do realize that I'm going to have to flame you now, for displaying actual knowledge on a subject



( excellent point about dog/tv set & juries ! ) )

 

[Melissa]

The "black box" warning was placed on anti depressants because of these statistics.

However if you do some research into the psychiatric/medical journals you will discover that when a depressed person is put on anti depressants and they begin to work effectively the individual begins to emerge from an apathetic state. It is during this emergence that they commit suicide. More energy, more organized does sometimes lead to the ability to plan and act in a suicidal manner if they were already suicidal.

 

[asthmodeus]

so you can actually be too lazy to commit suicide? that's...nuts.

 

[}Dragon{]

Makes more sense to treat depression than withold treatment for fear of some random aberrent event.

Would you agree a child/adolescent has different brain chemistry than an adult w/ an A.B. Normal brain?

 

[Melissa]

so you can actually be too lazy to commit suicide? that's...nuts.

funny!
depression involves apathy, involves a state of indifference, a biological impassivity and when lifted a bit by an SSRI or SNRI that indifference evaporates.
I guess that's not very funny.

 

[Lovedoc]

Would you agree a child/adolescent has different brain chemistry than an adult w/ an A.B. Normal brain?

Yeah I would for sure. Another thing is young brains, even into early the twenties, are bundling the wiring. Neurons are connecting and being pruned, the brain is hardening into a configuration you'll be living with forever. What does having an exogenous drug working at those synapses modulating function during that time do? Maybe certain parts of the brain go through that maturation abnormally? I have no idea, sounds plausible tho.

I just know that depression is a devastating disease, if something is gonna help sufferers it must be utilized. Like any other med, the benefits must be weighed against the risks, and those risks are known to include suicide.

 

[Daks]

It's probably been said already, but I believe that many of these are caused by misdiagnosis.

Either parents won't stop until they get pills to "fix" their kids that are just, you know, teenagers/young adults with hormonal problems, or the doctors are prescribing the wrong drugs for the wrong problems.

Someone who is bipolar and suffering from depression will simply become ridiculously manic when on anti-depressants. Manic people are fucking nuts. My sister and best friend are both bipolar and they can turn into a couple of total whack-jobs when manic. Often then, it's not that they want to actually kill themselves, but they think, for some crazy reason that jumping off a bridge or running across the highway naked will heal them.
It's sad, and terrifying to see.

I wish there was less of a stigma around psychiatric disorders. The world could use a lot of education on them. There are so many.

 

[cynner]

These drugs are often over-prescribed, and too many people think they're an easy fix for a complex problem. Many of them are not FDA approved for children, but they're prescribed anyway. Some have some truly frightening side effects. Big Pharma is reluctant to admit they don't know exactly how these drugs work.

I highly recommend Robert Whitaker's "Anatomy of an Epidemic" - the best book I've found on the subject.

 

[Melissa]

Can I admit that I love you even if it's from afar?

Yeah I would for sure. Another thing is young brains, even into early the twenties, are bundling the wiring. Neurons are connecting and being pruned, the brain is hardening into a configuration you'll be living with forever. What does having an exogenous drug working at those synapses modulating function during that time do? Maybe certain parts of the brain go through that maturation abnormally? I have no idea, sounds plausible tho.

I just know that depression is a devastating disease, if something is gonna help sufferers it must be utilized. Like any other med, the benefits must be weighed against the risks, and those risks are known to include suicide.

 

[Ratters]

I work with kids on medications every day. Let's just say there is no science to the applications, most of it is just guesswork by doctors, prescribing things and seeing how it turns out. I've had kids on 8 medications at one time. How the hell do you know what is working or not working? And as much as people wish this was true, you can't medicate away crazy. There are certain psychotropics that work in certain situations, but truly crazy is just crazy. And a lot of crazy you just can't fix. There are certain kids who need their medications, especially in a setting just as mine, but as a whole I think maybe 5-10% of the prescribed drugs are needed let alone beneficial. I work in a behavioral modification setting and frequently the kids medications interfere with their ability to learn self control.

As for the correlation is not causation thing, that is true, but it is also evidence that must be looked at with other factors. If something correlates over a lot of trials, it's something you might want to pay attention to.

 

[corndog67]

Growing up in the 60s and 70s, you just didn't see these prescriptions being written. At the most, you'd get penicillin for a strep throat or something like that. They did not give kids anything for being hyperactive, attention deficite, or anything else. Now, it's rare if a kid isn't on something. But then again, the number of meds they've got me on, is ridiculous. I guess it's just a medicated society now.

 

[Melissa]

Incorrect information.
ADHD is not cured nor even treated with ssri's.
Please do your research prior to making statements that are not true.
Thank You.

Particularly considering the boom in diagnosing ADD in children too hyper for public schools, and "curing" it with SSRIs... and then the kids shoot up the school or murder their families.

 

[mean dad]

In my case, I would rather take my chances using Lexapro than to not. I have a pretty severe anxiety/panic disorder. The attacks are completely debilitating. I do not like the fog I'm in, but I'll take that over the alternative.

Sometimes they really are necessary for the user to be able to maintain a decent quality of life. I do agree, though, that they are over-prescribed, especially to teenagers.

I'd rather him take xanax for the immediate "relief", and see if the occasional pill is sufficient. lexapro needs to be taken for 2 weeks or so before its effects are felt, so how long do you suppose it takes to get it out of your system?
it states as one of the warnings that it is addictive.
I'm all for using drugs to remedy things that need remedying, but this is the first time he's seen anyone at all for his anxiety, which has only surfaced in the last couple or three months.
it got really bad the last week, so I gave him a few zannies I had, and it helped instantly.
he went to see someone, and they gave him a scrip for zannies and lexapro.

first time he's in, and they want to put him on a powerful antidepresant with addictive properties that changes the fuck out of your personality.

like I said, I'd rather he take a zannie when he feels the stress coming on.
if a month or two of this approach isn't cutting the mustard, then we move to the military grade drugs with dubious side effects.

 

[cynner]

Unfortunately, too many doctors don't like to prescribe Xanax because it's addictive and has a high street value.

Some SSRIs are addictive in that you go throuth withdrawal (a "buzzing" feeling in your head) when you stop taking them. This happened to me when they took me off Paxil.

 

[corndog67]

I know a couple of people that are on Xanax. Both of them feel they can't live without it. I'd be real reluctant to give that to my kid, and have him feeling that he couldn't possibly do without it. And both the people I know that are taking it, are also raging alcoholics. I get incoherent phone calls pretty regularly. My ex, also. Has herself convinced she can't live without them, when she is running low, say down to 5 pills or so, she starts getting pretty manic about it.

My doc asked me if I wanted to try Xanax. Nah, I don't need to get hung up on anything, already have to take lisinopril, omeprazole and a bunch of other shit that doesn't affect my head, don't need to go on the nod at work.

 

[zefflyn]

Incorrect information.
ADHD is not cured nor even treated with ssri's.
Please do your research prior to making statements that are not true.
Thank You.

Maybe that's why the users go on murderous rampages!
So you probably won't believe me, but I already did research and discovered that kids receive SSRIs for ADD, sometimes in combination with the typical treatments of Ritalin, Adderall, etc. Even the list in the first post has a couple of kids on both Ritalin and Prozac. I trust you though, so if you know for a fact that it isn't happening, I'll triple-check my research.

I tried alternative medicines for a couple different issues. There is as much hocus-pocus, as there is BS in the regular medical world. Like putting the burning incense on the ends of the acupunture needles.

A chiropractor I went to once did that! I smelled like a stinky hippy the rest of the day and it gave me a headache. I never went back to that guy.

The lethal shit that would hit the market without the FDA approval process is scary. Forcing the manufacturers to prove their claims before they market a drug isn't a big deal, the FTC does the same thing for mouthwash and butt-enhancing shoes.

And the lethality of the stuff on the market is scary too: "Adverse drug reactions cause injuries or death in 1 of 5 hospital patients" and "An estimated 450,000 preventable medication-related adverse events occur in the U.S. every year." Tens of thousands of deaths are caused by overdose, which isn't FDA-relevant, but the millions of annual adverse reactions to prescription drugs when taken as prescribed is.

Now, I'm not saying all drugs would magically become beneficial and side-effect free without the FDA. I'm just saying the FDA is an artificial barrier-to-market that doesn't accomplish it's stated objective, protects Big Pharma from competition and full legal repercussions, and boosts pharma-profits through the roof.

Plus, it's an unconstitutional federal agency that shouldn't exist.

The tort system simply isn't adequate when it comes to medical outcomes. Juries aren't capable of understanding the biochemistry and statistics involved anymore than your dog knows how your TV works, and the law isn't written to reflect subtilties.

And juries are confused by expert witnesses and by what they see in TV shows that seem so realistic.

The FDA does get the science. The drug companies certainly wouldn't track and report adverse effects to the public without somebody holding feet to fire.

This is going to sound sarcastic but it isn't meant to be: Have you heard about those corrupt government agencies where they are supposed to regulate & control an industry, but instead, people quit their jobs at a regulated company and go work for the regulators, or to work for a lobby that lobbies the regulatory agency and Congress, and then they go back to high-paying jobs in the regulated industry?

That happens at the FDA too. Plus: From 2001 to 2004, 28 percent of voting consultants and advisory committee members had conflict of interest, and at least one consultant or member had conflict of interest in 73 percent of all drug approval meetings. This means that, at least 73 percent of the time, new pharmaceutical drugs weren't entirely objectively approved by the FDA because at least one person in power possibly had an external financial motive.

Natural News has a whole section dedicated to FDA corruption: http://www.naturalnews.com/FDA_corruption.html


But anyway, we're going off topic here: Ban SSRIs to save the children! If we can save just one child, it'll be worth it.