Track tires not good in the cold/wet street conditions

[OldMadBrit]

So i have been "retiring" my track day tires to street use when they are shagged out at the edges and squirrely at full lean. They typically still have tons of tread left in the center and for moderate lean angles.

Over the summer a set of "retired" D209's were OK for street and moderate canyon use.

However, I scared my self s!tless several times yesterday on a 270 mile loop through Lucas Valley, HW1, Occidental, Skaggs etc.

In the dry they were OK but on any ammount of damp it felt like I was on icy snot.

The damp patches on Lucas Valley Rd were particularly "entertaining" as I pushed the front and span up the rear, while failing to catch my mate on new street specific D2's.

On several wet patches of HW1 I was reduced to puccering along at 25-30.

So for me at least - lesson learned

 

[russ69]

They will work OK if you get them hot but cold and wet is a bit dicey.

 

[RRrider]

tires are the first place I put money (and protective clothing is the second). I really like traction.

 

[JO EBRMC]

How do you get track tires up to temp on the street? Particularly this time of year.

 

[Gary856]

Since riding is a mental game, equipment/tire that give you more confidence allow you to ride better. Saving money on tires doesn't make sense unless the bike is purely used for commuting duty.

 

[norcal-sti]

Since riding is a mental game, equipment/tire that give you more confidence allow you to ride better. Saving money on tires doesn't make sense unless the bike is purely used for commuting duty.

'cuz nothing even remotely dicey could ever happen while you're 'just' commuting...

 

[Spec-ECU]

How do you get track tires up to temp on the street? Particularly this time of year.

Same as you would on the track. Load them up hard on the brakes and throttle, often. The latter is what makes it tricky on the street.

 

[TheRiddler]

How do you get track tires up to temp on the street? Particularly this time of year.

It was 80 degrees where I was today. I'd imagine DOT track tires would still be alright.

 

[JO EBRMC]

Same as you would on the track. Load them up hard on the brakes and throttle, often. The latter is what makes it tricky on the street.

It was 80 degrees where I was today. I'd imagine DOT track tires would still be alright.

I can see this working on the freeway but on city streets, the tires are going to drop below operating temp at every stoplight.

And you'd need to ride like an asshole to even get them to temp in the first place.

I'm not sure city traffic and 80 degrees is enough but even if it is, relying on the weather to give you those perfect conditions seems foolish.

I'd rather just buy some street tires.

 

[Archimedes]

I can see this working on the freeway but on city streets, the tires are going to drop below operating temp at every stoplight.

And you'd need to ride like an asshole to even get them to temp in the first place.

I'm not sure city traffic and 80 degrees is enough but even if it is, relying on the weather to give you those perfect conditions seems foolish.

I'd rather just buy some street tires.

I don't think he was talking about in town. I think he was referring to the canyons. And you can get a track tire up to temp in the mountains if you ride like a bit of a nutter. I wouldn't use them in the winter though. I'm nervous enough on street Supercorsas in the wet.

 

[Spec-ECU]

You get race DOT's up to temp by loading them up, and riding in a straight line on the freeway isn't how you load tires. You do it on the brakes and on the throttle, hard. For my style of riding, I couldn't use DOT's on the street, no matter how hot it is out there. I hardly gas it and brake in the mountains, so DOT's would never get up to temp with me. But that's just me and my style of riding.

 

[killfile]

How do you get track tires up to temp on the street? Particularly this time of year.

you could try this method:

 

[OldMadBrit]

Over the summer they worked fine. I could get them hot enough to give me the level of grip you need for moderst canyon rides. They were already shot for really agressive full lean stuff anyway, so I was not riding like a complete nutter on them.

What I found on Sunday was that I could not get or keep them hot enough in the morning whent it was still cold and damp. The wost part was riding through the long shaded wet patches on LVR and HW1 which sucked what little heat I had right out of them.

I think there is another part to this as well. I have been told (but dont know for sure) that DOT race tires don't stand up to heat cycling as well as street tires do (this certainly was the case for DOT race CAR tires a few years back). So it may also be that after 5 track days and 3 months of street riding, they are heat cycled to the hardness of cast iron.

 

[RD400man]

I ran a D.O.T. race front in the rain up 17 once. NEver again. Street tires for the street, especially in the winter and the lower model like the entry level diablo streets. I'm thinking that you may get the tire warm straight up and down braking hard and accelerating hard, but try and do that to the cold sides of the tires!!!!

winter: tires that warm up quickly and at lower speeds...

This is why i like vintage two strokes with skinny rims...tires heat up quickly and the bike is light. much more confidence n the cold

so in review: superbike in the summer, vintage two stroke in the winter...it's just that easy. R1 in the rain...no thanks....Z1000, ok.

 

[kangaroo]

So i have been "retiring" my track day tires to street use when they are shagged out at the edges and squirrely at full lean. They typically still have tons of tread left in the center and for moderate lean angles.

Over the summer a set of "retired" D209's were OK for street and moderate canyon use.

However, I scared my self s!tless several times yesterday on a 270 mile loop through Lucas Valley, HW1, Occidental, Skaggs etc.

In the dry they were OK but on any ammount of damp it felt like I was on icy snot.

The damp patches on Lucas Valley Rd were particularly "entertaining" as I pushed the front and span up the rear, while failing to catch my mate on new street specific D2's.

On several wet patches of HW1 I was reduced to puccering along at 25-30.

So for me at least - lesson learned

I usually stick with take-offs. Keeps me at a sane speed in the winter time. But Michelin Pilot Powers and Pirelli Roadsmarts are the cat's meow for damp weather.

 

[mototireguy]

On one hand I want to agree that DOT trackday tires (Supercorsas, Racetecs, BT003, D211GP, Power Race, etc) are a bad tire choice for riding in cold/wet conditions. My understanding is that trackday tires are engineered to be super icky sticky when warmed up but at the expense of less grip when cold. For cold/wet weather conditions you would be better off with higher silica content sport-touring type tires.

On the other hand I've had this discussion with accomplished racers who are very happy with the performance of trackday tires and prefer them regardless of the weather and temperature conditions.

 

[louemc]

I might not have it right, but..I can only go with what I think is right.

Track tires are track tires.

Street / track day tires are street tires that work well enough to be track day tires.

Track tires cannot be trusted to be up to temp, on the street. They might get up there, but they can't be trusted to stay up there.

If you can't trust your tires...how insane is that?

Tires get more specific every year (at least, could be much quicker)..That means use them for what they were designed for.

 

[CIE]

Well.... It's pretty simple really. Once you've worn a track tire out on the edges it's effectively been heat cycled to death. There is no worse tire in the cold/rain than that. I'd take 20 year old street tires that have lot's of tread before 6 month old track tires that have taken a thrashing. Even on a warm day at the track it's going to take a few laps for a heat cycled tire to come in and be sticky.

Now a brand new DOT (which is a goofy way of referring to a track tire anyway), more like DOT race tire, is a great all around tire if it's not been hammered on the track. They are generally just as sticky as a street tire at cooler temperatures. Rain changes that, as most DOT race tires do not have the same siping as street tires. They're not designed to shed standing water.

FWIW... when you race in the rain you don't go back to street tires. You just go to fresh rubber that hasn't been heat cycled. Just something that has been scrubbed in.

 

[Spec-ECU]

For cold/wet weather conditions you would be better off with higher silica content sport-touring type tires.

I'll add to this that since switching from supersport street tires to sport-touring tires, I am a much happy street camper. I feel no discernable difference in grip, the tire profile is great for quick-steering, and longevity is substantially noticeable now, when my previous supersport tires would have obvious signs of wear at this point already.

ST tires have come a long way indeed, and for the street, I'll be sticking to them for the most bang for my buck. Plus, you can use them as rain tires on those wet trackdays!

 

[clutchslip]

I am feeling simplistic, today, so here is my simple opinion:
While I will agree that many "track" tires may be awful in the wet. (I have some). I usually do the old finger-nail test. And unless your track tires are really old, I bet they still do better in the finger-nail test than a straight street tire.