Unofficial AFM meeting notes

[afm199]

Old minutes approved.

Much discussion about Endurance race. 250P no longer allowed. (If I got this right) two smokes still in air?

XBUX guy talks a long time about something while I did imaginary laps of Sears Point.

Production fork cap rule will be enforced in 650 Production ( no adjustable rebound externally) Alex is pissed. (Sorry Alex. You won though. You get the kit, just more work to adjust the rebound) Jason Butler says damper rod fork tuning is part of the fun , Alex disagrees.

Clubman race not to be limited to four hours ( general consensus most people not in favor of 4 lap race, they will crash anyway)

FP sponsor signed for three years.

Scott Storey typing like a mofo trying to keep up with all the voting.

Kevin forgot my name again. Did a good job of keeping things moving though.

Berto's mullet is trimmed and he no longer looks like Joe Dirt with red hair.


The end.

This is my understanding. If I got it wrong

 

[afmotorsports]

Production fork cap rule will be enforced in 650 Production ( no adjustable rebound externally) Alex is pissed. (Sorry Alex. You won though. You get the kit, just more work to adjust the rebound)

"Pissed" is a gross understatement. I am one e-mail away from resigning from the AFM board, retiring from AFM racing and finding a different hobby. I didn't win anything, I just have to go through a whole bunch of additional work (and time and $$$) to tweak a fork kit (Traxxion AK20) so that I make it comply to a section of the rulebook WHICH WAS WRITTEN FOR MODERN 600s AND 1000s and has the UNINTEDED effect of SCREWING the 650 Production riders who buy PRODUCTION-LEGAL fork kits (like AK20 and others). The SPIRIT of the rule was to ALLOW these kits in Production classes, but instead of focusing on the INTENT of the rule, the result is that I have to dance around an UNINTENDED TECHNICALITY in the fork cap section to make this simple drop-in modification "legal". No other Production-legal bike in the AFM has to go through this fiasco when the rider installs an aftermarket kit and in the end I will end up having to REMOVE THE FORK CAP in order to make any sort of rebound adjustments to my forks. Who the F#@K "wins" from any of this nonsense??? What is the POINT of making 650 Productin riders go through all this CRAP just because the stock motorcycle with the old-skool conventional forks doesn't have caps with rebound adjustment?? All the 650 Production riders who have or intend to have a fork kit installed just got completely SCREWED for no good reason whatsoever! And in the end, unless other 650P riders figure out the tricks to modify this cartridge kit to comply with the "fork cap rule", I will likely be the only racer with a "legal kit" and will be able to protest anyone else who shows up in the class with a fork kit (especially visiting racers who run stock SV forks with fork kits that are LEGAL in every other supersport SV class in the entire country!)

So yeah... I'm extremely pissed!!

 

[afm199]

Alex, all you have to do is modify or replace the fork cap and you get to keep the cartridge kit and ADJUST it. You just have to do a bit more work. I have to pull the forks and change the oil every time I adjust damping.

I will be glad to give you a hand.

Like I said, you keep the benefit of the cartridges, you just end up doing a bit more work. Ride the bike, find a good damping area, then pull the caps and measure the amount of damping used. Rebuild the cap using that amount, fuck you can just cut the head off the damping screw and it is no longer adjustable.

PS: Please don't resign from the Board, you bring a lot to the AFM. We all have setbacks.

 

[Adiggity]

All you 650P guys should just come to an "unspoken" agreement to not protest that on anyone......or it's probably too obvious??? That is pretty stupid IMO. How does a rebound adjustment give anyone an advantage. You can still do it without the cap, just not as easily, right?

 

[afm199]

All you 650P guys should just come to an "unspoken" agreement to not protest that on anyone......or it's probably too obvious??? That is pretty stupid IMO. How does a rebound adjustment give anyone an advantage. You can still do it without the cap, just not as easily, right?

The issue is not just the adjuster, the issue is what Production means. The point of the class was to allow inexpensive entry racing. You can buy and field an SV for $2500. The aftermarket cartridges immediately add $1k or more to the cost. 650 Twins and FIV are there for folks who want to race MODIFIED bikes and there are plenty of them. I race a modified SV and enjoy it. I was looking forward to a production class. Different animal.

 

[Adiggity]

Right, but what doesn't make sense to me is that those kits are still legal, just not the caps. Right? Or am I reading it wrong? The only thing the caps do is allow you external adjustment, no?

 

[Zerox]

The issue is not just the adjuster, the issue is what Production means. The point of the class was to allow inexpensive entry racing.

The cost just went up even more. Now it's $1150 for the Traxxion AK20 kit, plus another $100 to mod the fork cap to make it AFM Prod legal.

I won't wanna mess with the damping anyway. If I get to the point where the damping is bothering me, I deal with it by simply riding slower.

 

[afm199]

Right, but what doesn't make sense to me is that those kits are still legal, just not the caps. Right? Or am I reading it wrong? The only thing the caps do is allow you external adjustment, no?

The rules are contradictory and not clear. The only thing that IS clear is the prohibition of aftermarket fork caps that have rebound adjustment. Spelled out right there in the rules, preload only. Does not matter if it is "part of a kit".

 

[scooby-doobie]

Just curious... Why did you make such a big deal out of the Production rule and push so hard to make the cartridges illegal? What did you accomplish, other than making it difficult for the people using AKs?

It's obvious that the rules were defined to make the cartridges legal and it appears that nobody else has a problem with people using them, except you.

I'm running a bone stock front end on my bike and have no issues competing against someone with AK20s.

Seems like a case of sour grapes.

 

[afm199]

The cost just went up even more. Now it's $1150 for the Traxxion AK20 kit, plus another $100 to mod the fork cap to make it AFM Prod legal.

I won't wanna mess with the damping anyway. If I get to the point where the damping is bothering me, I deal with it by simply riding slower.

I spent hours getting the fork oil the right weight. Right now it works great at 70-78 degrees. At 60 degrees the forks pack down, at 85 they bounce too much

 

[afm199]

Just curious... Why did you make such a big deal out of the Production rule and push so hard to make the cartridges illegal? What did you accomplish, other than making it difficult for the people using AKs?

It's obvious that the rules were defined to make the cartridges legal and it appears that nobody else has a problem with people using them, except you.

I'm running a bone stock front end on my bike and have no issues competing against someone with AK20s.

Seems like a case of sour grapes.

Who pushed to make the cartridges illegal? Name a name. I told Alex I would not protest if he raced the kit and caps. He brought it up at the meeting. I did not ask for it on the agenda and would have been fine if it went the other way.

And in any case I DO think the cartridges should be tossed if this is a PRODUCTION class. 650 Twins is the modified class.

As far as being obvious the rule was made for the cartridges, I agree. The cartridges on he Production bikes that HAVE cartridges. The way I read the rule it says you can replace damper parts (damper rod) or revalve, but you can not revalve a damper rod fork. Like I said the rule is very unclear.

 

[scooby-doobie]

Who pushed to make the cartridges illegal? Name a name. I told Alex I would not protest if he raced the kit and caps. He brought it up at the meeting. I did not ask for it on the agenda and would have been fine if it went the other way.

And in any case I DO think the cartridges should be tossed if this is a PRODUCTION class. 650 Twins is the modified class.

As far as being obvious the rule was made for the cartridges, I agree. The cartridges on he Production bikes that HAVE cartridges. The way I read the rule it says you can replace damper parts (damper rod) or revalve, but you can not revalve a damper rod fork. Like I said the rule is very unclear.

Interesting and valid points. I wouldn't be shedding any tears if they changed the rule to exclude the cartridges either. It would level the performance factor and lower cost, which are both good things.

As far as the rules being unclear, that's a separate issue, and if they (in their current state) define the AKs as being illegal, then I guess they are. It appears that people running them will have to either mod their forks to comply or the AFM will have to change the rules to accommodate them.

What's done is done. It's just very unfortunate for those using them who now have to scramble to be legal at the last minute with R1 being one week away.

Naming names? Didn't you start all of this in the first place with your previous post where you stated you were going to protest?

 

[afm199]

They don't define the AKs as illegal as currently interpreted as of last night. You can run AKs, just mod the fork caps so they don't adjust rebound.

I stated I might. I pointed out a rule that was BEING ignored and the Board vote was almost unanimous that it was. That is a long way from me running around drumming up support and asking members to support my stand. I asked no one for support and said I would not protest. It is not my responsibility to actively support rule breaking.

In any case, I think an hours work will cover the fork caps. Maybe two. Plus which, nobody will protest anyway.

I agree that it is too bad it got brought up this late and regret not bringing it up two months ago. O well.

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

Was there any discussion about the crash rule? Nothing was mentioned in your notes. Just curious whatever came of that.

 

[afm199]

Ahhgg It was discussed and I think Dave (IIRC) suggested we throw it out completely and let experts race with no limit but the usual "if you are a serial crasher you gotta go" dangerous riding rule. I think it was Dave. It got tabled for late discussion and I went home to catch some ZZzs

 

[NSR250SP]

"Pissed" is a gross understatement. I am one e-mail away from resigning from the AFM board, retiring from AFM racing and finding a different hobby. I didn't win anything, I just have to go through a whole bunch of additional work (and time and $$$) to tweak a fork kit (Traxxion AK20) so that I make it comply to a section of the rulebook WHICH WAS WRITTEN FOR MODERN 600s AND 1000s and has the UNINTEDED effect of SCREWING the 650 Production riders who buy PRODUCTION-LEGAL fork kits (like AK20 and others). The SPIRIT of the rule was to ALLOW these kits in Production classes, but instead of focusing on the INTENT of the rule, the result is that I have to dance around an UNINTENDED TECHNICALITY in the fork cap section to make this simple drop-in modification "legal". No other Production-legal bike in the AFM has to go through this fiasco when the rider installs an aftermarket kit and in the end I will end up having to REMOVE THE FORK CAP in order to make any sort of rebound adjustments to my forks. Who the F#@K "wins" from any of this nonsense??? What is the POINT of making 650 Productin riders go through all this CRAP just because the stock motorcycle with the old-skool conventional forks doesn't have caps with rebound adjustment?? All the 650 Production riders who have or intend to have a fork kit installed just got completely SCREWED for no good reason whatsoever! And in the end, unless other 650P riders figure out the tricks to modify this cartridge kit to comply with the "fork cap rule", I will likely be the only racer with a "legal kit" and will be able to protest anyone else who shows up in the class with a fork kit (especially visiting racers who run stock SV forks with fork kits that are LEGAL in every other supersport SV class in the entire country!)

So yeah... I'm extremely pissed!!

Alex you should race a real class. Check out 600 SB, there may still be room on the grid Or just go back to 250 SB, you can probably pick up another Aprilia no problem.

 

[TWF]

typical afm bullshit.
2 bikes legal for same class can not use same parts.only in communist party,afm.
you guys are out of control with 0 common sense.
glad I am not member any more.
Alex,call me.

 

[kneedrag]

Point of clarification:

The proposal was for the removal of 9.2.8.d from the rule book. The proposal did not pass. Please read rule 9.2.8 and interpret if sub-section "d" had been removed.

 

[afm199]

Next year I am sponsoring a class for Urals

 

[NSR250SP]

Point of clarification:

The proposal was for the removal of 9.2.8.d from the rule book. The proposal did not pass. Please read rule 9.2.8 and interpret if sub-section "d" had been removed.

I think what your saying is that if the proposal had passed, the overall rules in section 9.2.8 would be more strict. I think what should have been proposed would be to change the wording and strick the "of fork springs only" part. that would have allowed for fork caps to be replace as well as modified.