Vegans protesting restaurant get front row of deer being butchered

[Eldritch]

Can confirm, makes for fun moto adventures in SF

Ahh, the good old days.

 

[wazzuFreddo]

Ahh, the good old days.

We should go bump some of the threads where we where all stirring up shit with the moped “gang”

Blasted a three block long wheelie in front of those guys on Geary one night right by the cathedral where it opens up.

 

[Climber]

I eat meat, lots of it.

Fuck you if you don't like it. It's part of the cycle of life.

These people had one objective, to shut him down. Good for him for forming his own protest.

I just tell vegans that I'm a carnivore, that pretty much ends any sort of preaching from them.

 

[bojangle]

These vegan protesters have a lot in common with abortion clinic pro life protesters.

Dated a vegan last year. Wouldn’t take birth control because it “wasn’t vegan”.

So how big are the child support payments?

So she swallowed because it was organic?

Organic doesn't equal vegan. Vegans won't eat animal flesh, nor will they eat anything derived from an animal, like eggs, milk, or cheese.

It's safe to say she didn't swallow.

 

[Eldritch]

We should go bump some of the threads where we where all stirring up shit with the moped “gang”

Blasted a three block long wheelie in front of those guys on Geary one night right by the cathedral where it opens up.

Ahh, The Creatures of the 'Loin. I wonder whatever happened to those guys.

 

[Cycle61]

The alleged motorcycle involved in said shenanigans is in safekeeping. LMK when it needs to make an appearance.

 

[jdhu]

Fiance is vegan, has been for 20+ years (since childhood, by choice, only one in her family). I eat meat, but not much (1-2 meals a week).

She made a few points when we read the headline the other day, I'll offer them for discussion.

I'm pretty laissez-faire, "don't tell me how to live/what to do," etc. Now, IF we think there's a "public good" aspect to animal welfare or treatment, does that change anything? She analogized animal treatment to child molestation; obviously, a "let me do what I want" argument there fails, right? I can't imagine any of us believing a child molester should have the right to molest, no matter how laissez-faire we might be.

So, IF we accept that analogy for argument's sake...well I don't know, thoughts? If humane treatment of animals is a public good, don't we have some right, or even duty, to fight for humane treatment?

She fully accepts and agrees vegans can engage in self-defeating, holier-than-thou behavior. Personally, she isn't so much against hunting/killing/eating of animals, versus the quality of life they have when they are alive. For her, factory farms and inhumane treatment are more the issue, than eating an animal.

I can tell she is genuinely pained by consumption of animals, and much more so by inhumane treatment while an animal is alive. However, she bites her tongue and lives her own life (while of course doing what she can with her consumer voice).

Anyway, I realize this deer was dead, and my questions/thoughts are more philosophical. I have a hard time faulting or ridiculing non-militant vegans.

 

[dagle]

It's a totally different argument than molestation, as humans we believe in fairness for other humans in the form of human rights. It may seem cruel because I can see your wife's naive point of view that all creatures are equal, but the fact of the matter is that we are not.

Does that mean inhumane farming is OK? Absolutely not, but remember that part of the reason that you and I are here is because our omnivore ancestors were able to survive by murdering animals for calories.

 

[jdhu]

It's a totally different argument than molestation, as humans we believe in fairness for other humans in the form of human rights. It may seem cruel because I can see your wife's naive point of view that all creatures are equal, but the fact of the matter is that we are not.

Does that mean inhumane farming is OK? Absolutely not, but remember that part of the reason that you and I are here is because our omnivore ancestors were able to survive by murdering animals for calories.

Okay, but this only works if the assumption is that animals don't have rights, right? Or as you put it, that all creatures are not equal? Again, my fiance isn't so much against consumption as animals, as she is their inhumane treatment.

I may or may not agree with you, but your entire Point rests on the assumption I just mentioned. No need to call her naive, hopefully we can discuss without using terms like that. Reasonable people can disagree.

 

[Kurosaki]

I'm eating some carnitas tacos right now.

Meat rules.

 

[Kurosaki]

I wouldn't mind going on a hunt one time and seeing the whole process from kill to burger. Friend of mine shared some elk meat with me once and it was the bomb diggity

No interest in shooting a bow just like I have no interest in shooting guns but I wouldn't mind being there.

Also don't some plants have some kind of basic nervous system? Or have I just been listening to Joe Rogan talk too much when he's high as a kite?

 

[littlebeast]

Woa! . Your reaction to all this seems a little over the top. Are you ashamed of your family business?

yeah - you’re right. way over the top. it’s a huge trigger for me. major childhood trauma that i won’t go into detail about. and probably a huge dose of guilt over the role my family played in a lot of fear and misery. and yes, i’m ashamed of it (the past, not the present). it’s interesting that as the younger generations have grown up, they’ve moved away from the business. no one is in it at this point. the ones who wanted to stay in ag moved on to fairly lucrative farm crops and tree based fruits and nuts in place of raising and slaughtering animals. i wouldn’t necessarily say it was an ethical decision on the part of the ones who stayed in it though - they have mostly just followed the money.

 

[littlebeast]

I wouldn't mind going on a hunt one time and seeing the whole process from kill to burger. Friend of mine shared some elk meat with me once and it was the bomb diggity

No interest in shooting a bow just like I have no interest in shooting guns but I wouldn't mind being there.

Also don't some plants have some kind of basic nervous system? Or have I just been listening to Joe Rogan talk too much when he's high as a kite?

my grandmother told a story about my grandfather bringing a doe home from a hunting trip. he lamented that he was wasn’t a quick enough shot to get her two yearling fawns. she told him he was lucky. if he had brought home two dead fawns, she would have divorced him. from the look on her face, she meant it. and she was a hard core farm woman.

 

[shouldnthave]

trust me, you don't want me to elaborate.

Sorry you went though that. My mom occasionally tells the story of her 'pet' cow the family had when she was a wee tot. It was pretty traumatic when it was butchered. Mom had no idea it wasn't really a pet.

Stuff like that can stick around with someone for a loooong time.

 

[littlebeast]

Sorry you went though that. My mom occasionally tells the story of her 'pet' cow the family had when she was a wee tot. It was pretty traumatic when it was butchered. Mom had no idea it wasn't really a pet.

Stuff like that can stick around with someone for a loooong time.

thanks so much babe. i sincerely appreciate your understanding.

 

[Kurosaki]

my grandmother told a story about my grandfather bringing a doe home from a hunting trip. he lamented that he was wasn’t a quick enough shot to get her two yearling fawns. she told him he was lucky. if he had brought home two dead fawns, she would have divorced him. from the look on her face, she meant it. and she was a hard core farm woman.

that's interesting. The value different people place on the lives of different animals (and animals of varying age as well) is always fascinating to me. I don't bother judging anybody who might say "how dare you kill this animal" and also think "well, killing this animal is okay." An ex of mine had a pet ferret, she was heartbroken when her pet died and most people don't give a fuck about ferrets.

I'm far from an expert in the meat/animal processing business but I wonder if, for example, a cut of steak from a young calf was of superior taste and quality to a full grown cow, if the majority of people would be okay killing calves in droves to satisfy our craving for delicacies.

One tidbit I know about hunting from my friends is they say a quick and clean shot is best, not only from a humane standpoint, but a wounded animal with adrenaline running high trying to escape before being put down is lower quality meat than the one that was just hanging out and never saw it coming. Can't personally weigh in on that but it seems logical?

 

[shouldnthave]

that's interesting. The value different people place on the lives of different animals (and animals of varying age as well) is always fascinating to me. I don't bother judging anybody who might say "how dare you kill this animal" and also think "well, killing this animal is okay." An ex of mine had a pet ferret, she was heartbroken when her pet died and most people don't give a fuck about ferrets.

I'm far from an expert in the meat/animal processing business but I wonder if, for example, a cut of steak from a young calf was of superior taste and quality to a full grown cow, if the majority of people would be okay killing calves in droves to satisfy our craving for delicacies.

One tidbit I know about hunting from my friends is they say a quick and clean shot is best, not only from a humane standpoint, but a wounded animal with adrenaline running high trying to escape before being put down is lower quality meat than the one that was just hanging out and never saw it coming. Can't personally weigh in on that but it seems logical?

Here is an article all about it. https://www.google.com/amp/s/mother...8q8984/why-animals-that-died-scared-taste-bad

 

[Kurosaki]

Here is an article all about it. https://www.google.com/amp/s/mother...8q8984/why-animals-that-died-scared-taste-bad

Word! Thanks for the link!

 

[littlebeast]

that's interesting. The value different people place on the lives of different animals (and animals of varying age as well) is always fascinating to me. I don't bother judging anybody who might say "how dare you kill this animal" and also think "well, killing this animal is okay." An ex of mine had a pet ferret, she was heartbroken when her pet died and most people don't give a fuck about ferrets.

I'm far from an expert in the meat/animal processing business but I wonder if, for example, a cut of steak from a young calf was of superior taste and quality to a full grown cow, if the majority of people would be okay killing calves in droves to satisfy our craving for delicacies.

One tidbit I know about hunting from my friends is they say a quick and clean shot is best, not only from a humane standpoint, but a wounded animal with adrenaline running high trying to escape before being put down is lower quality meat than the one that was just hanging out and never saw it coming. Can't personally weigh in on that but it seems logical?

this is very true. kinda sick to me that how an animal dies is measured on how tasty it’s flesh is afterwards. if we had respect for our food, i’d have an easier time with this. but we don’t. we take it completely for granted. so therefore, i have a VERY hard time with it.

 

[dagle]

Okay, but this only works if the assumption is that animals don't have rights, right? Or as you put it, that all creatures are not equal? Again, my fiance isn't so much against consumption as animals, as she is their inhumane treatment.

I may or may not agree with you, but your entire Point rests on the assumption I just mentioned. No need to call her naive, hopefully we can discuss without using terms like that. Reasonable people can disagree.

The word naive was not meant to be an insult, but rather in its technical definition. Furthermore, it was in regards to the point of view that we can compare human rights to animal rights and not in regards to your fiance as a person or her character. I'm sorry if I offended you, but my intention was not to insult her or you.

Human rights are a man-made construct to protect people and I personally think its because we can be compassionate to people who sometimes did nothing wrong except be born into an unfortunate situation (we don't select our parents, we are randomly born into our families). I don't think the same principle can be applied to animals. We breed them to be food. Their sole purpose on the planet is to provide calories for us, and their genetic characteristics only remain in the gene pool because they're tasty or quick to grow edible tissue.

If we muddy this line between humans and other organisms, why stop at slaughtered animals? Why aren't invasive animals, fish, fungi, etc. included? I draw the line at humans because we are the supreme species on this planet currently and every other species exists only because we have a purpose for it or at worse we don't care enough to destroy them. This may sound cold, but it's the reality of our world currently.

"humane treatment of animals is a public good" is debatable. I don't want to have to bring in feral cat, rabid coyote, hyena or other invasive animals to be euthanized when I can just shoot them and let them die. If it happens to be a headshot and painless, great, if not and they die a gruesome death running away, that's really too bad because I'm not risking my safety to ensure an animal dies comfortably. The parallel that I'm drawing is that the treatment of animals inside and outside of a farm/ranch would have to be the same and would be wildly impractical.

To the point specifically of factory farms / high output farms and our food supply chain at large, let me frame it for you from my perspective so you can understand my point. Factory farms and high speed slaughterhouses to our modern standards seem inhumane and unnecessary, but think about the motivation to create them. They were created to scale out cheap meat products to the masses.

If you were poor and buying meats from Tyson farms, Hormel meats or eating fast food regularly (cheap animal products in general), I don't think you would have the same perspective. The factory farms where chickens never see the light of day, pigs/cows are stacked on top of each other in pens, etc. are to fulfill a demand for cheap food. If they were to scale out the same volume humanely, the resources would have to scale up as well. Think about that from the median income or below median income of US households' perspective, it becomes unaffordable.

In regards to equality I think restrictions or introducing inalienable animal rights burden the poor. It's unfair to the poor to increase the cost of meat because PETA, vegans or whoever had ethical or moral objections when we've been doing it forever now. If PETA or any vegans want to propose or fund a solution that both maintains output and costs while preserving those rights, I'm sure the meat industry would be all ears. my 2c