What are bad habits (according to MSF)?

[Lovedoc]

There is one bad habit worth mentioning, riding at speeds or in places where you don't belong. Stay in the backyard on a pit bike or in a parking lot on a beginner bike and you probably won't die. The risks go up from there.

You admitted it if you haven't before. You don't believe in riding a motorcycle on the street. Since virtually every single person reading your post does, wouldn't you be happier finding a forum of like-minded individuals? Oh wait...

 

[Tharkûn]

I only mount and dismount on the right side, but that has to do with traffic 5 feet to my left going 65 MPH.

Our 1150's actually did have a few kickstand failures originally, but thats been corrected.

 

[Heifsin]

Wow, some people here really don't know how to ride. Keep at least a couple fingers on clutch and don't cover the front brake. Simple as that

 

[beginner]

One thing that the MSF and others really press is "Know your limits".

How can a knew rider know his limits? The best he can do is restrict how and where he rides then learn about limits where mistakes are less costly . The perfect start, you're 8 years old, Dad buys you a bike, Mom makes the rules, you're stuck in the back yard for years. Try not to skip that step even if you're starting at 38 or 48.

You don't believe in riding a motorcycle on the street.

I don't say that. It's true I'd rather maneuver the bike than putz along on roads. I think there should be higher expectations for skills and experience for highway speeds and traffic.

 

[Stormdragon]

The perfect start, you're 8 years old, Dad buys you a bike, Mom makes the rules, you're stuck in the back yard for years. Try not to skip that step even if you're starting at 38 or 48.

Which of course leads to the question: How many years did you put in, in the back yard before moving up to the parking lot?

 

[revnort]

How can a knew rider know his limits? The best he can do is restrict how and where he rides then learn about limits where mistakes are less costly .

I think there should be higher expectations for skills and experience for highway speeds and traffic.

You are probably correct on this point HOWEVER, you can take it easy and know your limits outside of a parking lot as well. Not to mention the many other valuable lessons you learn by riding your motorcycle on public roads.

 

[Gabe]

...putz along on roads.

"Putz." That's the perfect word.

http://www.yiddishdictionaryonline.com/

 

[CaptCrash]

How can a knew rider know his limits? The best he can do is restrict how and where he rides then learn about limits where mistakes are less costly.

What is the sound of one hand clapping?

To the point at hand, trained riders potentially have a better grasp on what they don't know--they're more aware of bad habits to avoid (there was a nice list in here earlier) and they have a clearer expectation of what's coming next (i.e. traffic, freeway, knuckleheads).

I would offer that knowing your limits isn't based in Fear, as you appear to believe from your violent attempts to conquer danger by talking about it, but knowing your limits is based in self awareness--knowing who you are, what you can do and where you can do it.

One of the bad habits the MSF doesn't want you to ingrain is thinking too highly of yourself. (Yes, and false modesty fits that bill...but you can break it if you try!)

 

[Holeshot]

Here are some things I see experienced riders do when I'm coaching MSF that are contrary to the curriculum we use:

-Covering the front brake
-Not using all four fingers on the front brake
-Mounting the bike from the wrong side
-Not using brakes going into corners
-Using front brake only
-Using rear brake only
-Letting the clutch out too quickly
-Shifting gears in a sloppy, imprecise way
-Jerky movements on throttle, clutch, steering or brake
-Coasting through turns on trailing throttle or braking mid-turn
-Not turning their heads to look through turns

There's other stuff, but the other big thing is a lack of understanding about how motorcycles steer--they either argue that countersteering isn't how a motorcycle turns or are surprised that it works.

I'd fail right out of the gate. I always cover the FB lever cause it gives me an idea where my throttle position is at all times...kind helps when the tire's spinning off a corner, etc. I also only use one finger (bad habbit..I'd love to use two), but I never use the rear brake unless it's to tighten a line mid corner which is really rare. On a sportbike, that thing is next to useless and only used unless I'm gonna run off. The other one is the pulling the clutch in on corner entries stuff...I think that's the method I've heard taught? That's the last thing I'm doing on entries.

MSF should teach an advanced class to undo some of the beginer habbits they teach, but maybe that's where the track schools come into play. But admittedly, I should take the course to know more what they teach and how they teach it...and most certainly it's the best beginer riding program in the country. Kudos to MSF for all of that!

 

[beginner]

Which of course leads to the question: How many years did you put in, in the back yard before moving up to the parking lot?

Parking lot and backyard are the same risk, low.

One of the bad habits the MSF doesn't want you to ingrain is thinking too highly of yourself. (Yes, and false modesty fits that bill...but you can break it if you try!)

If you haven't been riding for at least 5 years you suck. I'm no exception. That's not false modesty, it's realistic.

 

[CaptCrash]

If you haven't been riding for at least 5 years you suck. I'm no exception. That's false modesty.

Fixed that for you. Thanks for making my point.

Let me amend this a touch to keep in mind the Bad Habits idea: one of the goals of training is to help new riders create realistic expectations--to the reverse, having overly high or overly low expectations of yourself or your riding future can put in in problematic places.

 

[beginner]

Fixed that for you.

I talked to a dancer who told me dancing boils down to balance and muscle memory. I think the same applies to riding the bike. Some peices respond well to practice, others take years regardless of practice. My brother and I started within months 3 years ago. In some things we are on par. In others I have an edge because of the practice time. I don't think I'll start to see how the peices fit together untill 5 years.

 

[Brown81]

Wow, some people here really don't know how to ride. Keep at least a couple fingers on clutch and don't cover the front brake. Simple as that

You should come out to Redwood Rd, or anywhere else, and show all us newbs how it is done!

 

[revnort]

I talked to a dancer who told me dancing boils down to balance and muscle memory. I think the same applies to riding the bike. Some peices respond well to practice, others take years regardless of practice. My brother and I started within months 3 years ago. In some things we are on par. In others I have an edge because of the practice time. I don't think I'll start to see how the peices fit together untill 5 years.

It's worthless to argue with you (so I sometimes wonder why I am compelled Oh yeah I am bored).

Time spent practicing does not necessarily equate to proficiency. Also after 5 years in a parking lot you will necessarily not be a good rider. You certainly will not be fully equipped for riding outside of a parking lot.

What basis do you have for this number? It's totally ridiculous and totally off topic.

I am starting to understand why you feel the need for this OCD behavior. You seemingly perform the same actions (posting here) without learning anything.

 

[Holeshot]

You should come out to Redwood Rd, or anywhere else, and show all us newbs how it is done!

Haha!

On "Beginers" issue, I don't understand why his method for self instruction peeves so many people. To each's own...and if this helps him and he believes it has value to share with the community, then so be it. I discount his advice, but then again plenty of people discount mine. He's sharing his values on learning to ride...so what? Is he incorrect? In some respects, yeah. Is he correct? In some respects, yeah.

There's some guys who can ride the shit out a bike and not tell you how they do it. There's others who can tell you everything and yet, are slow as camels. What I do know is that everyone learns and explains things differently...

 

[horsepower]

Haha!

There's some guys who can ride the shit out a bike and not tell you how they do it. There's others who can tell you everything and yet, are slow as camels...

You left out the guys that can't ride for shit and can't tell you why, the guy who can't ride for shit but explains why he thinks he's the shit and the guy who can't ride for shit who can explain shit all day long.

I prefer the guy who is the shit who knows his shit........HOLESHOT!!

 

[Holeshot]

I prefer the guy who is the shit who knows he's shit........HOLESHOT!!

Edited for clarity!

 

[horsepower]

Edited for clarity!

haha, yup!


To the OP, some bad habits MSF might clear up:
1. Riders that panic brake versus learning to swerve.
2. Riders that overbrake versus learning the correct application and amount of brake in a given (parking lot) situation.
3. Failing to do a pre-check inspection of your bike: We get into this bad habit and it results in everything from low tires, to flat tires to running out of gas....even on the track.

 

[beginner]

You should come out to Redwood Rd, or anywhere else, and show all us newbs how it is done!

I'm not sure what you mean by "it". I've kept practice videos from the first ride to the present. http://www.youtube.com/user/motormanmagoo I also made a trail riding video a couple weeks ago to test a tank mount for a video camera. That gives an idea of what I like to do with the bike outside the parking lot.

[youtube]lnkPJDwni0E[/youtube]

 

[Stormdragon]

On "Beginers" issue, I don't understand why his method for self instruction peeves so many people.

I don't think it's his method that peeves people. It's his insistence that his method, is The Only Sensible Method.

Hey, if someone tells you they practice Chopstix on the piano 4 hours a day, every day, and that they aren't ready to move on to 3 Blind Mice yet...