Why don’t they make more supermoto versions of ADV bikes?

[ilikefood]

The market is fragmented enough. Are there really not enough options for large supermotos and adv bikes?

There are no large supermotos. The last one was the KTM 990SM. Everything else, like the Hypermotard, are pretending to be supermotos just in styling, with like 5” of suspension travel.

 

[kuksul08]

Hyperstrada doesn’t count because it has piss-all suspension travel. That’s also why the KTM 790 is a miss for me - 5” or whatever of suspension travel isn’t nearly enough for real-world city streets. Put 17” wheels on the 790 Adventure, and now we’re talking.

So I’m with OP, I’d love to see more ADV style bikes (especially the smaller lighter ones with long-travel suspensions and 17” wheels. At least 8” suspension travel, but more is better.

I have ridden the most fucked up road ever, way WAY worse than any city street in the bay area or even most dirt roads, on a bike with 6" of travel, and it was buttery smooth. Just go faster and run 42psi

 

[ScottRNelson]

What is missing from the various Duke and Super Duke models that make them NOT a supermoto? I would think the 1290 Super Duke would be a good match for the kind of riding you seem to be looking for.

I think the same thing every time I get the itch to look for a super enduro. Would be cool to have the new 1190/1290 in a super enduro model and just add the 17's. I would love the old 990 super enduro but those bikes are getting pretty old.

The Super Enduro only came as a carbureted 950, they quit making it when the fuel injected 990 came out.

If you're serious about getting one, there is one for sale near where I live. I'll be happy to help you buy it if you really want one.

https://boise.craigslist.org/mcy/d/ktm-950-super-enduro/6760875497.html

 

[ilikefood]

What is missing from the various Duke and Super Duke models that make them NOT a supermoto?

Suspension travel. Without 8”+ suspension travel it’s just a regular street bike dressed up in supermoto style clothes.

 

[Junkie]

There are no large supermotos. The last one was the KTM 990SM. Everything else, like the Hypermotard, are pretending to be supermotos just in styling, with like 5” of suspension travel.

some of the Hypers had decent travel, although the current ones not a ton at 170mm = 6.7". the old 1100 EVO SP had 7.5". I'd still like more, but it's significantly more than streetbikes.

What is missing from the various Duke and Super Duke models that make them NOT a supermoto? I would think the 1290 Super Duke would be a good match for the kind of riding you seem to be looking for.

The Super Enduro only came as a carbureted 950, they quit making it when the fuel injected 990 came out.

If you're serious about getting one, there is one for sale near where I live. I'll be happy to help you buy it if you really want one.

https://boise.craigslist.org/mcy/d/ktm-950-super-enduro/6760875497.html

what does the Duke and SuperDuke have in common with a supermoto? Upright bars and 17" wheels? They have no more suspension travel than a typical sprotbile.

 

[Jalopyshoppe]

The Duke and Super Duke also have a very different ergo layout than the Sumo or ADV bikes. The fuel tanks are tall. They remind me of riding a bike with a sleeping bag strapped to a tank bag. The controls are also a bit more rearset than adv bikes.
I'm still on team Africa Twin with 17/19 wheelset.

 

[Gary856]

This old KTM LC8 line-up perfectly explains the differences and my feeling toward them. KTM did this for the 950/990 series, but not for the 1190/1290/1090.

- Super Enduro – Leave this to the real hard-core, expert off-roaders who can handle the weight and power.

- Adventure – Intended for long distance rough road touring. More bike than necessary for weekend fun rides.

- Super Duke – Great for street-based sport riding on smooth roads, but not as great on rough roads and not as “rugged”. Upright standards generally have different ergos from ADV/SM/SE type bikes, as they should, in addition to suspension travel.

- Supermoto – A tripped down, simpler, more compact (not necessarily shorter, but less bulky) version of the ADV. A bit similar to a chopper in concept in the cruiser world, but it’s more than just cutting off stuffs and putting on 17” wheel. I read that KTM team started thinking that way, but soon realized they had to re-engineer a lot more when converting the 950ADV to 950SM to make it ride properly. Perfect for weekend fun rides.

A SM should be/feel rugged - frame/suspension strong enough for rough road and dirt, and minimal body work made of plastic panels that are cheap to replace.

Ducati bikes (Multistrada, Hypermotard, etc.) are fun to ride but they feel fragile to me in terms of drop resistance.

Exactly my thoughts, but you seemed to think it was a bad idea.

http://bayarearidersforum.com/mini/showthread.php?t=502004

I think it would be super fun!

I thought your focus was about the 17” tire advantage and unexciting Honda reliability. Here I’m talking about stripped down, less bulky versions of high-end ADV bikes in general for weekend fun rides.

 

[R3DS!X]

I think the differences between the 950 sm and 950 superenduro are mostly in the tires, if you had a sportsman setup on the super enduro there aint much between the two. brakes are better on the sm, suspension a little different.

 

[sjuels]

http://www.1290smr.com

I believe that bike was built by z3n and have long been a bike that I find to be ideal.

I am working on an R1200SM project, which will be a (relatively) light GS, very barebones.

I always felt that there was plenty of interest in large SM bikes, but not even a concept from the manufacturers.

/Soren

 

[Cornfish]

Sometimes if you want what you want, you have to do it yourself. I think there is a similar quote in the article on Motorcycle.com about this bike. Sure looks like a kick in the pants.

 

[Jalopyshoppe]

I thought your focus was about the 17” tire advantage and unexciting Honda reliability. Here I’m talking about stripped down, less bulky versions of high-end ADV bikes in general for weekend fun rides.

Having an adventure bike with less of a ragged edge design on 17" rims is a pretty fantastic idea. Part of the problem with may SM bikes is that they're based on MX bikes that are high strung.
I'm not really trying to stir up the KTM vs the world argument, but if I were to have a large SM, I'd sacrifice the ragged edge power for some refinement and less intense maintenance schedules.

 

[Karbon]

my take is past a certain weight and fork length, stability at high speed becomes an issue. It's one of the reasons real supermotards have their suspension stiffened and the travel lowered from 12" to maybe 10"-8".


just remembering they actually did make one. It was such a weird, niche bike and overpriced. This was a product the early 00's, before the crash.

https://www.webbikeworld.com/bmw-hp2-megamoto/

 

[Slow Goat]

Damn, what roads are you riding on that needs 8” of fork?

 

[ScottRNelson]

Damn, what roads are you riding on that needs 8” of fork?

Stuff like this?

At least, that's why I need 8".

 

[ilikefood]

Damn, what roads are you riding on that needs 8” of fork?

SF streets and highways. My old Multi has something like 5.5” suspension travel (and Öhlins suspension) and it’s pretty jarring on bumpy city streets and dips and bumps on the highway. My DRZ-SM with closer to 11” suspension travel handles those things a lot better and I just don’t have to worry about slowing down for potholes at all. 5”-6” of suspension travel is good for smooth racetracks (which is why that’s the range for sport bikes) but for riding on real-life streets, you really need more suspension travel to make bumps fun instead of worrisome.

 

[Gary856]

Having an adventure bike with less of a ragged edge design on 17" rims is a pretty fantastic idea. Part of the problem with may SM bikes is that they're based on MX bikes that are high strung.
I'm not really trying to stir up the KTM vs the world argument, but if I were to have a large SM, I'd sacrifice the ragged edge power for some refinement and less intense maintenance schedules.

There are fundamental differences between single-bike owners who rely on their bikes for daily transportation, and multi-bike owners who do it for fun. My epiphany came from owning a naked ‘07 SV650, which is valued by many for its reliability and versatility. However, the Plain Jane SV didn’t excite me, so what was the point of keep riding it when riding time is finite, and I wanted to maximize fun?

The current high-performance ADV bikes are all built for the distance and obviously have nothing to do with high-strung MX bikes. They got power from large displacement, but hardly ragged edge. With the “big” SM version based on ADV bikes, I’d gladly accept a bit more maintenance time/costs (of the Euro bikes over Japanese) for much more excitement.

just remembering they actually did make one. It was such a weird, niche bike and overpriced. This was a product the early 00's, before the crash.

https://www.webbikeworld.com/bmw-hp2-megamoto/

IMO, the styling of the BMW HP2 Enduro/Megamoto were disasters. The purple/blue frame made them look dated, like the early 90’s purple/blue-framed DR650. The Enduro looks like a cartoon body builder – bulky upperbody with skinny legs. The Megamotos look like a power ranger – more like a girly Gladius than a manly SM. Since then, BMW styling has become much better.

 

[Gary856]

A lot of visual bulk is gone by removing the windscreen/upper fairing /instrument-light cluster. It looks much cleaner and more purposeful. For the GS DIY conversion, the stock wheel size looks right; 17” front would’ve made it look short-legged. Maybe fighter/enduro/scrambler would be a better description than SM in this case. I thought about doing this to my R1150GS; however, it would look cool and be somewhat lighter, but still not enough engine.

I love the packaging of the KTM 950 Supermoto, but want the more powerful and less thirsty engine in their current generation ADV bikes.

 

[FreeRyde]

SF streets and highways. My old Multi has something like 5.5” suspension travel (and Öhlins suspension) and it’s pretty jarring on bumpy city streets and dips and bumps on the highway. My DRZ-SM with closer to 11” suspension travel handles those things a lot better and I just don’t have to worry about slowing down for potholes at all. 5”-6” of suspension travel is good for smooth racetracks (which is why that’s the range for sport bikes) but for riding on real-life streets, you really need more suspension travel to make bumps fun instead of worrisome.

That's because the valving on them there U-Leenz forks is super stiff for buttery smooth race track pavement.

My cheap ass Vstrom is smooth as can be over the SF streets and only have a meager 5-6" travel. It's all about valving and spring rate.

 

[bunnygoat]

The 990 SMT fits that description as does my 950 SM. (discontinued but was in the line-up for many years.)

 

[redruM]

I'm surprised there isn't a greater demand for larger-displacement supermoto-esque bikes. Every sportbike rider with leg, hip or back limitations - who doesn't want an "old man-looking" sport touring/adv bike - would be well served by the open rider triangle that supermotos offer.

Would love to see a 1090/1190 SMR next year.