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Why is it so hard to buy a motorcycle?

Ninjarider87 said:
try to save some money with Costco
https://www.costco.com/auto-program-services.html

When i went to get my grom i believe total OTD price was around $4500 or so. After i gave them my Costco card - guy came back with OTD $3750 and we had a deal. I honestly hate negotiating so it worked for me. Dealers really hate Costco lol
Click to expand...

They offered you the Costco price when you showed your card?

A few years ago I joined Costco in preparation for a bike purchase. The vehicle buyer program didn't work for me.

If I thought it might actually work next time though I'd consider joining again.
 
davidji said:
They offered you the Costco price when you showed your card?

A few years ago I joined Costco in preparation for a bike purchase. The vehicle buyer program didn't work for me.

If I thought it might actually work next time though I'd consider joining again.
Click to expand...

Yes when i came to check the bike i first asked what price they want for it. Then asked if they can use my costco card, they said yes and then came back with a piece of paper that had OTD price that includes eveyrthing, fees, taxes etc.

PS. i tried to negotiate price down and the guy literally started laughing and said NO WAY! lol
 
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Ninjarider87 said:
try to save some money with Costco
https://www.costco.com/auto-program-services.html

When i went to get my grom i believe total OTD price was around $4500 or so. After i gave them my Costco card - guy came back with OTD $3750 and we had a deal. I honestly hate negotiating so it worked for me. Dealers really hate Costco lol
Click to expand...

Not the dealer who has a deal with CostCo. They build in a profit margin they are comfortable with.
A 4000 dollar bike isnt where they are making their money, though..
 
davidji said:
Also advertising a price, and then adding "markup" to it after the fact is blatant false advertising.

Inflated freight and setup fees are bad enough. Tacking those fees on after the fact to an advertised price appears to violates CVC 11713.1 . But adding on "dealer markup" is worse. They've dropped any pretense of selling the bike for the price they advertised.

https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/vehicle-code/veh-sect-11713-1.html
Click to expand...
I haven't heard of dealers admitting that costs beyond advertised price are markup
 
So, the tracer gt msrp is $12,999........which is what the dealer sold,to me, at that price........no markup......that’s the price on the bill of sale. Which is a very good price for that bike with all the features and options. Go read the whole specs, features of it.

Freight.......so what’s the cost to ship a bike through a freight company across country? I bought a fzr400 a long time ago and it was shipped from Louisiana to here for $500 dollars. The freight on the gt was less.

Dealer prep.......like I said.....it just had been delivered..the tie downs straps were still on the forks....the battery wasn’t even hooked up.....no oil, or gas. The hard bags support brackets were not even on yet. So, yeah, I want them to go through it make it street ready and to ensure the factory did not make any errors. So, what’s a fair price for this?

Taxes, dmv fees......set by the state.......now this Calfornia Tire Fee of $3.50 seemed silly.

Admin/doc fees........the bike isn’t even in the DMV system yet.......someone has to do the paperwork to do so for me. I’m not doing it. A dealer rep is.....should this service be free and if not......what’s the fee to do so.

Do any of you work for free? Say you put in 12 hour day........would you work for free the last two hours?
 
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ontherearwheel said:
So, the tracer gt msrp is $12,999........which is what the dealer sold,to me, at that price........no markup......that’s the price on the bill of sale. Which is a very good price for that bike with all the features and options. Go read the whole specs, features of it.

Freight.......so what’s the cost to ship a bike through a freight company across country? I bought a fzr400 a long time ago and it was shipped from Louisiana to here for $500 dollars. The freight on the gt was less.

Dealer prep.......like I said.....it just had been delivered..the tie downs straps were still on the forks....the battery wasn’t even hooked up.....no oil, or gas. The hard bags support brackets were not even on yet. So, yeah, I want them to go through it make it street ready and to ensure the factory did not make any errors. So, what’s a fair price for this?

Taxes, dmv fees......set by the state.......now this Calfornia Tire Fee of $3.50 seemed silly.

Admin/doc fees........the bike isn’t even in the DMV system yet.......someone has to do the paperwork to do so for me. I’m not doing it. A dealer rep is.....should this service be free and if not......what’s the fee to do so.

Do any of you work for free? Say you put in 12 hour day........would you work for free the last two hours?
Click to expand...

Nobody is saying work for free. Just saying advertise the true price not a teaser price that you can't actually buy it for.
 
So, since you don't know yet, care to take a stab at the prep fee for the bike? Just ball park what you think it should cost, mention it here, and then tell was what you were really charged at the end of the day.

See how close your expectations were.

There's nothing to suggest that the prep fee for a bike should be universal. Some bikes may very well need more work than another bike. But what's a good ball park? 2 hours? 4 hours? at, what, $120/hr mechanics rate nowadays? So that's pushing between $250 and $500 dollars.

So, swagging it:

$12,999 list
$200 doc fees
8.5% tax on $12,999 ~= $1105
$400 prep fee
OTD = 14,704

Let's see what it comes out as. Taxes and what not are about 11.5% of the OTD price.

Let's do the same on a $6999 bike
x 8.5% = 595
Doc and prep = 200 + 400 = 600
Total 8194. Taxes and fees = 14.5% of the OTD price.

And that's without padding the setup or any additional markup.

Take away, buy the most expensive bike you can to get the most value for your dollar :D
 
berth said:
So, since you don't know yet, care to take a stab at the prep fee for the bike? Just ball park what you think it should cost, mention it here, and then tell was what you were really charged at the end of the day.

See how close your expectations were.

There's nothing to suggest that the prep fee for a bike should be universal. Some bikes may very well need more work than another bike. But what's a good ball park? 2 hours? 4 hours? at, what, $120/hr mechanics rate nowadays? So that's pushing between $250 and $500 dollars.

So, swagging it:

$12,999 list
$200 doc fees
8.5% tax on $12,999 ~= $1105
$400 prep fee
OTD = 14,704

Let's see what it comes out as. Taxes and what not are about 11.5% of the OTD price.

Let's do the same on a $6999 bike
x 8.5% = 595
Doc and prep = 200 + 400 = 600
Total 8194. Taxes and fees = 14.5% of the OTD price.

And that's without padding the setup or any additional markup.

Take away, buy the most expensive bike you can to get the most value for your dollar :D
Click to expand...
the original post claims that there was a "$2500" discount on last year's model, and all of a $400 difference in OTD price. Setup, prep, etc would presumably be the same.
 
ontherearwheel said:
So, the tracer gt msrp is $12,999........which is what the dealer sold,to me, at that price........no markup......that’s the price on the bill of sale. Which is a very good price for that bike with all the features and options. Go read the whole specs, features of it.

Freight.......so what’s the cost to ship a bike through a freight company across country? I bought a fzr400 a long time ago and it was shipped from Louisiana to here for $500 dollars. The freight on the gt was less.

Dealer prep.......like I said.....it just had been delivered..the tie downs straps were still on the forks....the battery wasn’t even hooked up.....no oil, or gas. The hard bags support brackets were not even on yet. So, yeah, I want them to go through it make it street ready and to ensure the factory did not make any errors. So, what’s a fair price for this?

Taxes, dmv fees......set by the state.......now this Calfornia Tire Fee of $3.50 seemed silly.

Admin/doc fees........the bike isn’t even in the DMV system yet.......someone has to do the paperwork to do so for me. I’m not doing it. A dealer rep is.....should this service be free and if not......what’s the fee to do so.

Do any of you work for free? Say you put in 12 hour day........would you work for free the last two hours?
Click to expand...

Freight is something dealers pay so they pass the cost to you.

In the case of Harley, the factory reimburses prep, etc. YMMV on other makes. Harley dealers try to pass dealer prep onto the customer, however.

DMV sales tax and tire fee is something mandated by the State of California. You have no choice but to pay this.

Doc fees will vary from dealer to dealer. These are pure profit for the dealer, as they are trying to recover their "costs" of doing the sales paperwork for the deal. Does anyone here pay to get a receipt for a refrigerator purchase as an example? I don't. This should be a negotiable item, but one will be hard pressed to push a dealer off of it.

If you buy your insurance, extended warranties or finance through a dealer these items are all profit centers for the dealership. For most people these items are just as cheap at the dealer as shopping for your own.

Harley dealers in the bay area are big on selling "pre-paid" maintenance. But it's totally optional. The idea being that you get a discount as well as being "first in line" when it comes to scheduling.
 
Could you imagine going to the grocery store and everything you buy has a destination fee and stocking fee tacked onto the price?! I don't care how much it cost the dealership to set up the bike or have it shipped. Roll all your fees into the price you're going to charge. If I don't like that price I'll call a different dealership, haggle or put my tail between my legs because I can't afford the price.

Also, can somebody tell the gas station owners they can quit adding 9/10 of a cent to their prices. I'll gladly pay the extra 1/10 to quit seeing this.
 
berth said:
So, since you don't know yet, care to take a stab at the prep fee for the bike? Just ball park what you think it should cost, mention it here, and then tell was what you were really charged at the end of the day.

See how close your expectations were.

There's nothing to suggest that the prep fee for a bike should be universal. Some bikes may very well need more work than another bike. But what's a good ball park? 2 hours? 4 hours? at, what, $120/hr mechanics rate nowadays? So that's pushing between $250 and $500 dollars.

So, swagging it:

$12,999 list
$200 doc fees
8.5% tax on $12,999 ~= $1105
$400 prep fee
OTD = 14,704

Let's see what it comes out as. Taxes and what not are about 11.5% of the OTD price.

Let's do the same on a $6999 bike
x 8.5% = 595
Doc and prep = 200 + 400 = 600
Total 8194. Taxes and fees = 14.5% of the OTD price.

And that's without padding the setup or any additional markup.

Take away, buy the most expensive bike you can to get the most value for your dollar :D
Click to expand...


+ a couple hundred destination fee.
 
specv510 said:
Could you imagine going to the grocery store and everything you buy has a destination fee and stocking fee tacked onto the price?! I don't care how much it cost the dealership to set up the bike or have it shipped. Roll all your fees into the price you're going to charge. If I don't like that price I'll call a different dealership, haggle or put my tail between my legs because I can't afford the price.

Also, can somebody tell the gas station owners they can quit adding 9/10 of a cent to their prices. I'll gladly pay the extra 1/10 to quit seeing this.
Click to expand...

They do........it’s all in the shelf price.....it just not detailed out.....hidden cost you don’t see.
 
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norcalkid said:
Nobody is saying work for free. Just saying advertise the true price not a teaser price that you can't actually buy it for.
Click to expand...

Can you read? There was no teaser price for the bike......Yamaha site was msrp of 12,999.......same price on my bill of sale.......where is the tease?
 
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berth said:
So, since you don't know yet, care to take a stab at the prep fee for the bike? Just ball park what you think it should cost, mention it here, and then tell was what you were really charged at the end of the day.

See how close your expectations were.

There's nothing to suggest that the prep fee for a bike should be universal. Some bikes may very well need more work than another bike. But what's a good ball park? 2 hours? 4 hours? at, what, $120/hr mechanics rate nowadays? So that's pushing between $250 and $500 dollars.

So, swagging it:

$12,999 list
$200 doc fees
8.5% tax on $12,999 ~= $1105
$400 prep fee
OTD = 14,704

Let's see what it comes out as. Taxes and what not are about 11.5% of the OTD price.

Let's do the same on a $6999 bike
x 8.5% = 595
Doc and prep = 200 + 400 = 600
Total 8194. Taxes and fees = 14.5% of the OTD price.

And that's without padding the setup or any additional markup.

Take away, buy the most expensive bike you can to get the most value for your dollar :D
Click to expand...

You are way off doc fees.....a lot less then 200.

Pretty close on prep.

Yep frieght missing.
 
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mrmarklin said:
Freight is something dealers pay so they pass the cost to you.

In the case of Harley, the factory reimburses prep, etc. YMMV on other makes. Harley dealers try to pass dealer prep onto the customer, however.

DMV sales tax and tire fee is something mandated by the State of California. You have no choice but to pay this.

Doc fees will vary from dealer to dealer. These are pure profit for the dealer, as they are trying to recover their "costs" of doing the sales paperwork for the deal. Does anyone here pay to get a receipt for a refrigerator purchase as an example? I don't. This should be a negotiable item, but one will be hard pressed to push a dealer off of it.

If you buy your insurance, extended warranties or finance through a dealer these items are all profit centers for the dealership. For most people these items are just as cheap at the dealer as shopping for your own.

Harley dealers in the bay area are big on selling "pre-paid" maintenance. But it's totally optional. The idea being that you get a discount as well as being "first in line" when it comes to scheduling.
Click to expand...

Well.......for a frig.......the receipt is just printed out........for the bike, there was the sales contract that needed to be filled out for the lender and DMV forms that had to be filled out and then somehow get to the DMV.

That took about 30-40 minutes.......of a persons time.......never had a receipt of any kind take that long to print out.
 
ontherearwheel said:
Can you read? There was no teaser price for the bike......Yamaha site was msrp of 12,999.......same price on my bill of sale.......where is the tease?
Click to expand...
the original post clearly detailed a tease: two bikes of the same model (1 year different), the year old one "discounted $2500", the OTD price $400 different

there isn't a $2100 difference in cost to set the bikes up
 
ontherearwheel said:
They do........it’s all in the shelf price.....it just not detailed out.....hidden cost you don’t see.
Click to expand...

They are not hidden costs (in the grocery store example) because the costs are included in the price you see. That’s the whole point, that motorcycle (and car) dealers don’t show you the actual price until they waste your time talking to you. It’s a system designed to take advantage of buyers and allow price discrimination.
 
ilikefood said:
They are not hidden costs (in the grocery store example) because the costs are included in the price you see. That’s the whole point, that motorcycle (and car) dealers don’t show you the actual price until they waste your time talking to you. It’s a system designed to take advantage of buyers and allow price discrimination.
Click to expand...

Well gee golly......someone else that can read.......you buy a can of soup ........where is the cost breakout of what is included in that price....it’s isnt.......therefore those cost are hidden.

The soup can price is a lump sum price......not a detailed cost breakout.

The actual price was on Yamaha website.......dealer quoted me same price as on the website......how was the actual price never shown to me?

Oh, their was no wasting my time talking......I knew what I wanted......they had what I wanted at a fair price......so done deal. Very little talking to a salesman.

It so funny that so many just like to argue when they are so clueless. I provided real life example of my recent dealer experience buying a bike and yet refuse accept my experiences.

There was no dealer markup.

There was no pricing teasing or hiding of actual cost.

The fees are reasonable.

There was no salesman wasting my time.

Well, all I can say....I get it Sat.......time for some riding.

They got two base models in, two gt models.......the gt models were sold before they got to the dealer...mine being one...there is only one base model left........wonder why they sold so quick?.......Good bike at a good price maybe?
 
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