louemc
New member
I'm not convinced that changing suspension can make one tire feel like another. If I"m wrong I'd be interested in hearing why
I know that you are not wrong (and that doesn't even get into tire compounds and profiles)
I'm not convinced that changing suspension can make one tire feel like another. If I"m wrong I'd be interested in hearing why
So you're saying that you won't be able to feel the difference if you adjust your suspension?
One of the most important things about tires to me is feedback, and changing the carcass of the tire surely changes the feedback the rider is receiving, no?
I dont like stiff carcass Dunlops because they transmit too much feedback, for me it makes me nervous when I feel every little thing in the pavement which gives me less confidence. The Pirelli's give me feedback to what the bike and tire are doing but at the same time they mask some of the irregularities in the pavement which help me focus more on riding. Like you said in a way, acting as a second suspension, making the ride more plush. I dont' think I can suddenly tune this out by adding dampening. Nor would I want too
What Alex was saying is that tire flex (whether it be less with Dunlop or more with Pirelli) is part of the overall suspension formula and as such, your suspension components will need adjustment going from stiff carcass tires to soft ones. If you feel like the Pirellis absorb bumps better and Dunlops worse, it's because suspension adjustment (maybe even valving, oil weight, etc.) might be necessary to achieve the same bump damping performance on the Dunlops.
I'm not convinced that changing suspension can make one tire feel like another. If I"m wrong I'd be interested in hearing why
BTW, you're talking to the Michelin race tire distributor, if anyone knows close to everything when it comes to rubber it's Alex.
The tire for Thunder hill, (even as rough as it is, it is still a prepaired for racing, race course) will not be the same tire for a section of road I have access to that was a wagon trail until it got paved maybe 100 years ago, and being 0 priority, never repaved again, and patched by tossing road patch out of a pickup truck, no smoothing. And the ground (road bed) keeps moving through the winters and summers. That road is so rough, I can with just a 90 MPH speed, launch and stay launched hitting just the crests, of the bumps.
If we were talking to the Pirelli race tire distributor, would the same words be used? Of course not. They both may very well Know "close to everything when it comes to rubber" And they should, they qualified to be put in this positon because of many proven abilities, one of which is how tires work.
Knowing what they do, it will also get presented, with a slant. Favoring the bolstering the Philosophy of the Corporation they work for.
Thing is, These tires get used in a wider range of conditions, than any example used as the basis of some debate. The rider has to learn how suspension works. How chassis works, in that it isn't a question of stiff and it's done. It's a complex matter of how stiff, where, in the chasiss, and always what is the bike being subjected to.
The whole package of rider and bike (all the components in the bike) and the type of surface, have to work in harmony, Every part do it's job.
If everything is right enough to not be a problem, and just two items, tires and type of surface are the variables, than the tire for the Isle of Man race will not be the same tire for Daytona. The tire for Thunder hill, (even as rough as it is, it is still a prepaired for racing, race course)
will not be the same tire for a section of road I have access to that was a wagon trail until it got paved maybe 100 years ago, and being 0 priority, never repaved again, and patched by tossing road patch out of a pickup truck, no smoothing. And the ground (road bed) keeps moving through the winters and summers.
That road is so rough, I can with just a 90 MPH speed, launch and stay launched hitting just the crests, of the bumps.
The rider has to, using all that is available to them, put it together with the Riders chosen components.
I don't think anyone actually builds a DOT race tire designed for that type of road. 90 mph might be a tad too fast for such a POS road and maybe a dual sport or a BMW GS might work better on that type of "wagon trail". I have a 05 ZX10R just like yours and there are definitely such rough roads up in the Santa Cruz mountains that I avoid - clearly a sportbike doesn't have the suspension travel to really soak up the bumps in that type of road and frankly I don't want to stack the bike or bend the wheels. ymmv...
If anyone gets a chance, talk to someone who raced superbikes back in the early eighties and ask what it was like. Hint: " It was kinda hard to see cuz the bike shook so much and at 140 on the straight your head was moving around so much that seeing the turn was sketchy, plus the brakes sucked and the tires were scary. The frames flexed in harmonics and the only cure was more gas."
You don't have an 05 just like mine...
Funny how what I do is called Bastardized and say when Ducati, or Aprilia or, KTM does it, does something it gets Called HyperMotarded. (or some version of that)
I don't think anyone actually builds a DOT race tire designed for that type of road. 90 mph might be a tad too fast for such a POS road ... clearly a sportbike doesn't have the suspension travel to really soak up the bumps in that type of road and frankly I don't want to stack the bike or bend the wheels. ymmv...
Thanks for the supportive post...