Rawhyde "Intro To Adventure"

[mjj]

I'm surprised to do a search for Rawhyde on BARF and come up with so few hits. I went to their facility in Castaic this weekend, for their Intro class, and thought one or two of you might like to hear about it. Unfortunately, or fortunately, they kept me busy and I did not get a ton of photos. Mods, I couldn't decide if this was "Adventure Riding" or "Riding Skills." Apologies if I picked the wrong spot.

I signed up for the class mostly by being tricked into it by my beloved Uncle. He promised me we would go do it together, so we sent our deposits. Then, complications, including Covid, caused us to delay. Unbeknownst to me, he got his deposit back, while I just kept mine on the books for the future. He ended up announcing he had changed his mind and didn't want to go, and I ended up being intrigued and wanting to see it through. So I made the trip down on Friday from Fresno solo.

 

[mjj]

I hoped that the Antelope Valley bloom might be early this year and I could catch it on the way down. But it did not seem to be happening, so instead I set my sights on investigating the Old Ridge Road route over the Sierra Pelones near Tejon Pass. From near Gorman, the road was open and in good to poor condition all the way to the north gate, which was closed. You could see that the route had originally been a narrow ribbon of concrete winding through the mountains. At 30-40 mph, just getting to the Valley from LA would have been a full day trip. I considered trying to squeeze the F800GS around the locked gate using the pedestrian stile, as it is a very narrow bike, but not knowing the condition of the remainder of the route nor the situation at the south gate, decided to ride some forest service roads for a while and then return the way I'd come.

 

[mjj]

I ended up in Castaic at the Rawhyde camp in time to check in, get settled into my bunk, and belly up to the bar for a beer. I will say that the driveway up to the camp, about a mile or so, is in bad enough condition that a beginning rider unfamiliar with dirt might have experienced some stress going up. "If you can't make it up the driveway, you REALLY need our classes!" should maybe be their slogan.

It turns out the weekend was their busiest since Covid. There was a full Intro class (25 people), which I was in, as well as several people on either a refresher or a more advanced class (I was never sure about this). More people arrived on Sunday for private lessons, and 20 MORE people arrived Sunday evening for a 5-day Baja trip that was going out on Monday. The compound is well equipped for the crowds however and they did a great job of herding all us cats.

 

[mjj]

We arose Saturday morning for orientation and the get-us-started talk. I may as well admit that I arrived with something of an attitude. Part of my interest in the program was to see for myself what kind of riding school could possibly consider itself to be worth $750/day. (If you use a Rawhyde bike, add $200/day.) That's a LOT of Doc Wong! In the Bay Area we have several well regarded options for pennies on those dollars. I haven't attended any of these, but I would imagine that the basics are common to most programs.

So anyway, back to the introduction presentation. My attitude was heightened and my OCD was triggered when the coach said "Why are we having you stand up? It is to lower your center of gravity! Your weight transfers to the pegs!" Anyone who remembers their high school physics is triggered too right now. If you raise any part of a system, its CG rises, simple as that. There was also the usual BS about how pressing down on a foot peg translates to better traction. For pete's sake. Physics is being murdered right in front of me and no one is lifting a finger to stop it. Serious bystander effect here. I'm dying inside.

Some of you might post up saying "Yessir! I've been riding for 48 years and that's exactly how that works!" I will be happy to obliterate your non-logic using science and reason in the comments later, but right now I will stay on topic and continue with the narrative.

I found some homeless derelict to pose on my bike for me.

 

[mjj]

Fortunately, at the end of the presentation, one of the other coaches stood up and said "Now we know one or two of you are engineers and are going to challenge the CG comments." Hello, I thought, ears perking up. No matter that I am a microbiologist, and you really don't need a degree in engineering to know basic concepts, but at least we are acknowledging the elephant. "We know that's not *technically* how it works, but we find that this description works well for the lay audience." OK, at least someone has just put a band-aid on Physics. She might survive this. In an attempt to stay on topic I will not rant about how misrepresenting science, pandering to misconceptions, and oversimplifying, all disrespect your audience and contribute to the acceptance of fake news. I will not. I will just say that if you feel that a technical justification for your methods is beyond your audience (or the scope of your presentation) you should just leave it out.

Ending the presentation on that up note, I felt better about heading out to the course for instruction and drills. We split into two smaller groups, each with 3 coaches. I am delighted to report that all information and instruction from this point forward was completely solid, reality based, attentive, and super well organized. We spent the two days adding skills gradually, oh so gradually, on terrain that gradually, oh so gradually, increased in difficulty. The course content progressed from basics, such as bike balance and friction zone drills, through braking (front, rear, and both, with and without ABS), turns, hill starts, hill climbs and descents (using brakes, using engine braking), whoops, and ending with the dreaded sand pits. I have a lot of mountain biking and street riding experience, which gives me familiarity on 2 wheels on varying terrain, but I quickly realized that about 80% of what was being taught was new to me. I did not find the drills difficult to complete, but it did take work and attention to complete them correctly, and the coaches were almost telepathic in identifying my weaknesses. They knew where our eyes were looking better than we did. They could tell how we were weighting our bikes and would correct us immediately if we were wrong. Corrections and elaborations were always made on the basis of more basic skills we had been taught earlier. By the end of the weekend I had almost forgotten the rumble with Physics and could almost see her strolling, healed, hand in hand with her partner, Truth.

 

[mjj]

But, wait, you're saying, what about the bar? There's a bar? Do they overcharge for drinks like they overcharge for lessons? Here's the thing. The cost for the weekend seems high, and maybe it is. But these guys are completely focused on providing good service and a complete experience. All meals are included, as is the well-stocked open bar. There was not a hint of "one drink only please." This welcoming and inclusive approach created a relaxed atmosphere where we felt well cared for and that if we needed to ask for something, it would not be considered a burden. I think a couple of the younger guys might have had a bit of regret about spending until 1:30 AM Saturday morning carousing, but for the most part, the food, the bar, the social activities, all seemed genuine and welcoming, which fostered respect. When you consider that Rawhyde has done this for almost 20,000 riders before us, and could be forgiven for getting a bit tired of it all, maybe the value is there after all.

An added bonus of having a complete facility and spending the weekend there was meeting the fellow riders and having space to interact with them. Mornings and evenings were not rushed so we could regale each other with tall tales about our accomplishments. One of my favorites was the fighter pilot who kept reminding us he's "fought in THREE wars!" There were two Harley test riders there. People had flown in from all over the country. Most unexpected to me was that many riders were not only new to dirt, but new to riding in general. Kudos to them for trying just to learn the fine control of the clutch and throttle, on top of new and weird balance exercises.

 

[MTERK]

Sure hope you feel you got your money's worth! Another day with me at Carnegie could have only cost you $5 and I would have told you to just "weight the pegs"!!!!!

and good pictures!!!!

 

[mjj]

Postscript

Monday morning, the last thing I wanted to do after spending the weekend honing dirt skills was spend 3 hours on I5 and CA99 slabbing my way home. I noticed that Hungry Valley SVRA was just up the road, so I suggested to a couple other classmates that were headed north that we pause there for a bit of real world experience. I had one brave taker, all the braver for his plan to ride I5 all the way back to the Bay Area that day. So we set out and in the 15 miles between Rawhyde the temperature dropped from 45F to 35. We were NOT dressed for this and the ride there on the freeway had chilled us thoroughly. But dirt riding is slower riding so we pressed on. My companion was new to dirt, and riding in general, and after the roads proved steeper than anything we had encountered in class, he decided to head home. I spent a while exploring the OHV park and decided to warm up at one point by picking up my bike. That's a 3' high very mushy berm you see my tire tracks coming down, and I expected just to slump my way down. Too much power at the rear wheel sent it out from under me though. It's gorgeous up there in the Angeles Forest though and I'd love to go back sometime.

I'm still on the fence about going back for more classes. Being basically a cheapskate, I tend to DIY. But I have to admit that I came out of the weekend with a lot of skill and confidence I would probably never have developed on my own, no matter how much time I spent at YouTube U with Professor Tcaks. I do feel completely confident about not being a burden to Mike on his CA BDR trip this spring, which was a goal, and with another year of experience under my belt, I might feel like going back for the concierge ADV experience. I might even pony up for a rental GSA just to see what all the fuss is about.

 

[mjj]

Sure hope you feel you got your money's worth! Another day with me at Carnegie could have only cost you $5 and I would have told you to just "weight the pegs"!!!!!

and good pictures!!!!

Thanks Mike! A bargain at twice the price!

 

[berth]

Glad you had a good time. I've heard high praise for it, but have not pulled the trigger yet.

My eye is on an outfit down in Anza, I might try to get to them in the next couple months.

 

[berth]

I noticed that Hungry Valley SVRA was just up the road, so I suggested to a couple other classmates that were headed north that we pause there for a bit of real world experience.

I've been to Hungry Valley just once, pushing 30 years ago.

I managed to find a Honda 250XL listed in the CAR section of the recycler, and bought it. Went out with a friend, and we romped around.

Even though I didn't have any dirt experience, the roads and all were fine for me.

What wasn't fine was that I could never get that bike to start. I guess the 4 strokes were a bit notorious for this. What exhausted me that day was continually kicking the thing when I stalled it out or whatever.

Never went back, gave the bike to my neighbor.

 

[SFMCjohn]

awesome write-up and pics, place looks really pretty ... I've heard nothing but good things about RawHyde and have always wanted to do one.

fun to read your take about the peg stuff.
always felt a little guilty that I either couldn't understand what people were talking about, or couldn't notice a difference when I thought to try it while on the bike.

figured the speed I ride off pavement, it probably doesn't make much of a difference if I weight the pegs wrong or stand up or sit down.

 

[Cabrito]

Cool mjj,

It's nice to get a first account of the Rawhyde experience. It's too rich for my blood, and I've done two or three of the Doc Wong rides, but thanks for posting up.

Sounds like overall it was a positive experience and you learned a few things. Good for you for going for it.

 

[mjj]

Never went back, gave the bike to my neighbor.

It didn't seem to cool you on motos in general I must say, so that's good arty

 

[budman]

Nice write up mjj.

I had never heard about this place and it looks fricking pretty damn cool.

Hearing you came out of it impressed is the topper!...

This thread will be linked to a couple spots..!

 

[Frisco]

Great write up!

I’m a bit discouraged to hear that merely putting Bret Tkacs videos on a continuous loop won’t turn me into an expert ADV rider. Alas, I may need to pony up the $$ and get some proper training.

Until then, time to rewatch Bret’s “Weightless Rider” video….

 

[matty]

Nice write up and pics Glad you got your money's worth, enough to consider going again, that's pretty high praise.

And I've always wanted to check out the Old Ridge Road route, if for nothing else, just for some CA history.

 

[berth]

And I've always wanted to check out the Old Ridge Road route, if for nothing else, just for some CA history.

It's been closed for some time.

I rode it coming back from a rec.moto Joust almost 30 years ago. It was a pretty cool route.

 

[mjj]

“Best of”.

I’m humbled.

fun to read your take about the peg stuff.
always felt a little guilty that I either couldn't understand what people were talking about, or couldn't notice a difference when I thought to try it while on the bike.

Thanks. I had similar comments from some class mates. But I did not elaborate fully as it seemed to be a bit off track: I *do* think the advice about weight balance, pressure on pegs, and the like IS valid and useful. Just not for the usual reasons given.

In a nutshell, I propose

1). Standing up is helpful, not because it lowers the cg, but because it decouples the floppy and unpredictable organism operating the machine from the machine itself. (Which, actually, might change the system such that the CG is lowered! Annoying). We’ve all seen the IoM videos of the bike happily riding into the sunset after bucking off its rider. Standing up also reduces unsprung weight.

2). Weighting the outside peg is useful, not because it presses down in a useful way increasing traction, but because it allows a steeper lean angle of the bike, which reduces the turn radius. There’s also context. Think of the Fort9 video where he talks about body position. MotoGP riders lean into the turn in order to keep the bike as upright as possible. Dirt riders lean away from the turn in order to keep a slide tolerant orientation. Our coaches at Rawhide used the demonstration of balancing an upright stick in your open hand. The sliding bike is like the hand, and having the rider upright with the bike makes it easier to balance the stick when the hand is moving from side to side.

Another interesting conversation I had with a fellow student had to do with using the tools in the toolbox. Experience and training will help a rider know when it is time to stand up and decouple from the bike, or when it is time to become one with it. For example, one of the better pieces of advice from the RawHyde coaches came at the beginning of the sandpit exercise. He said “clamp your knees on the bike“. He did not go into the theory, but it was helpful, and this is a situation where it is better that the rider and the bike be one rigid upright structure, which will help moderate the side to side tendency of the bike in the sand (the hand under the stick). But, also, experience tells you that it is better not to be too rigid on the handlebars, because letting the bike find its own way through the sand is best.

The bottom line, though, is that whatever way you explain it to yourself that works, carry on. I’ll be happy to critique your theory as you fly past me.

 

[SFMCjohn]

Thanks. I had similar comments from some class mates. But I did not elaborate fully as it seemed to be a bit off track: I *do* think the advice about weight balance, pressure on pegs, and the like IS valid and useful. Just not for the usual reasons given.

The bottom line, though, is that whatever way you explain it to yourself that works, carry on. I’ll be happy to critique your theory as you fly past me.

cool, thanks for the thoughtful reply!

the stick-balanced-on-palm example was particularly helpful to me in understanding what happens when I stand on the bike, and why I should stand more, probably.

I don’t really have a theory (probably part of my problem. ), except maybe to ride as much as I can, focus as far down the road as I can see, keep my momentum and keep my feet on the pegs.

just happen to have a brief vid clip Mr Guoseph took of my technique, maybe you can critique it?

[YOUTUBE]bsHkuvmjAvI[/YOUTUBE]

what I don’t do enough of, maybe, is parking lot practice drills for balance-point, u-turns, etc.

think if I were to invest in a RawHyde course it might help me with motivation after the course to continue to drill regularly.

be interested to hear if you took away any at-home drills you’ve continued with? nice new avatar, btw, and thanks for the cool thread!