Religious discussion... WARNING: Not for overly sensitive religious people.

[louemc]

The Bible is a riot....It didn't fall out of the Sky..It was put together by a combined effort of a Roman Leader/General for political reasons and the church.

What was accepted by them was The old testament, and so called writings of Mathew, Mark, and John..That were written after those Apostles were dead.

There were other writings that weren't accepted by the church...and gave a completely different take on what Jesus taught.

And science tells a completely different history on how Solar Systems come into being.

And how life starts and thrives, and rebounds from mass extinctions.

Frankly I wouldn't give a big rats ass, what a person believes..Except when it's a make believe fairy tale...it promotes all decision making done...with make believe processing.

AKA Bat Shit Crazyness.

 

[jh2586]

Why would you feel compelled to convince an Atheist to believe in God?

How can you convince a Christian that there is no God?

I am not biased towards my original post. I am actually an Atheist myself.. (at least getting there).

I'm not trying to convince anyone.. it's just a topic to discuss.

And to answer the bold in your reply, many Christians try to convince "Non-believers" their religion. On the flipside, many Atheists, Skeptics, Non-believers etc.. try to disprove religion.

"Why" isn't the question here... it is "How"

 

[corndog67]

Also, why atheists don't need to show respect for religion:

http://www.alternet.org/story/149588/no,_atheists_don't_have_to_show_"respect"_for_religion

Well, let's see. My boss is extreme Catholic. One of the crew counted 17 crosses in his office. Apparently on the board. He directly controls my paycheck. I might work for a giant ass company, based in Sweden, but right here, he controls shit. I'm not saying shit about religion or even discussing anything at all about it.

I know plenty of people that don't believe. But as I told my stepkid (who seems to be getting almost Taliban-like in his disgust of religion, they don't accept his lifestyle), making such statements about someone's belief, isn't going to change their mind. It might keep you from getting a job. It might get you fired (you'd probably have some claim, buy they would say you were dis-respectful to their beliefs). It might piss off your very religious neighbors, which might make it shitty for you to live there. Just all kinds of shit. And, supposedly, 80% of the world considers themselves religious.

So I've found that I probably shouldn't say shit.

 

[HappyHighwayman]

I just want someone to tell me the difference between prayer and wishful thinking.

Does god reward those that wish the hardest?

What's the difference between god and magic?

Read The God Dilusion and tell me god is a "good" entity.

What's the difference between God telling you to sacrifice your son and having a mental illness?

 

[Bronto]

Certainly a way of looking at it. Another way is its an old story.

 

[n10sive]

Title specifically says "Not for overly sensitive religious people". Now GTFO.

OK. Got it. Let the religious bashing continue.

 

[HappyHighwayman]

Certainly a way of looking at it. Another way is its an old story.

The funny part is how many christians think the answers to all life's questions about good and bad and how to act are answered in the bible. They blindly accept the parts that fit in with their own morals and values, ignore the parts that are clearly outdated (How many actually believe in stoning people to death?) and remain clearly ignorant on the rest of it. Most Christians have never read the entire bible, new or old testament. It's full of a lot of terrible things.

It's an old story, and a bad one. Old Testament god is quick to anger, vengeful, homicidal, genocidal, petty and jealous.

 

[jh2586]

OK. Got it. Let the religious bashing continue.

It's just a discussion. People will say what they will say. They will believe what they believe. Just because they do not agree with you does not make you right or wrong.... it's your belief.. your right to believe.

If you can't handle the "bashing" you are referring to, then you are considered overly sensitive jk

No seriously though, I could change the title to "How do you convince a religious person that there is no God WARNING: No overly sensitive Atheists"

It wouldn't change the concept of the argument.. just the factors and parties are switched...

Just a discussion

 

[wackyiraqi]

I'm very reluctant to even see him and discuss, but I'd actually be sort of interested in what he has to say. This is one of the main reasons of this post.

If you're interested in what he has to say, meet with the guy. One of the beautiful things about freethinking is that you don't have to constantly dodge inconvenient ideas in order to keep your ideological house of cards from toppling.

I could listen to an eloquent minister preach his heart out all day, but without any sort of empirical evidence, or at least a smidgen of earthly logic, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to spontaneously sprout a belief in god.

That said, listening to someone preach at you doesn't sound all that fun, so if you want to avoid it just to save yourself from an awkward religious intervention, I wouldn't blame you. Besides, the odds of you learning of some hot new breakthrough in the cutting-edge field of theology is pretty slim.

 

[HappyHighwayman]

Is it wrong to bash religion ifyou genuinely think it does more harm than could, is holding back the development of the human race, and deserves no more respect than someone who believes in leprechauns?

Christopher Hitchens book "God is Not Great" is a giant religion bash, but it doesn't mean his points aren't valid or worthy of discussion.

Why should religion be above critique? Is it say ok to critique Christianity for the Crusades, Priests molesting children, the Spanish inquisition, but not that it teaches you that there's an invisible man who lives in the sky and watches you pee?

 

[jh2586]

If you're interested in what he has to say, meet with the guy. One of the beautiful things about freethinking is that you don't have to constantly dodge inconvenient ideas in order to keep your ideological house of cards from toppling.

I could listen to an eloquent minister preach his heart out all day, but without any sort of empirical evidence, or at least a smidgen of earthly logic, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to spontaneously sprout a belief in god.

That said, listening to someone preach at you doesn't sound all that fun, so if you want to avoid it just to save yourself from an awkward religious intervention, I wouldn't blame you. Besides, the odds of you learning of some hot new breakthrough in the cutting-edge field of theology is pretty slim.

I think I will go through with this. I just don't want to sound foolish and not prepared for the discussion. I know he will try to convince me that there is a God and that he loves me etc... I just don't know if I have the intellectual background and the confidence to disprove his belief.

 

[Bronto]

Fortunately my ancestor fought off the Christians for centuries. Finally having to defeat armies of Knights Templar to stop the religious incursions. They kept the preferred pagan religion and lived like heathens happily ever after. What was the most objectionable things about the Christian conquests. The Monarchy like leadership installed. Apparently the ancestors disliked Kings and Queens even more then religion.

 

[HappyHighwayman]

I think I will go through with this. I just don't want to sound foolish and not prepared for the discussion. I know he will try to convince me that there is a God and that he loves me etc... I just don't know if I have the intellectual background and the confidence to disprove his belief.

Whoever makes an assertion, it is their job to be convincing, not your job to convince them they're wrong.

You can't rationalize someone out of a position they didn't rationalize themselves into in the first place.

 

[Bowling4Bikes]

Is it say ok to critique Christianity for the Crusades, Priests molesting children, the Spanish inquisition, but not that it teaches you that there's an invisible man who lives in the sky and watches you pee?

don't need to believe...we have drones that already do that

 

[jh2586]

Whoever makes an assertion, it is their job to be convincing, not your job to convince them they're wrong.

You can't rationalize someone out of a position they didn't rationalize themselves into in the first place.

I agree

 

[jh2586]

I was born Catholic and converted to Born-Again Christian when I was about 12. I am 26 now. A few weeks ago, I got a phone call from my Mom and family asking when I was going to Baptize my son who is now 3 months old. I guess I shouldn't be shocked that they did not even ask me IF I was going to baptize him instead of jumping to WHEN it would happen.

After discussing with my wife, we decided that we would wait for him to be old enough to make the decision on his own free will. After I told my family that, it was like they disowned me and my son. They said that evil spirits can come into his body and he will get sick... etc...

I hung up on them

 

[mean dad]

OK. Got it. Let the religious bashing continue.

and posts like this is why it's not worth discussing.

/thread

:|

 

[corndog67]

I just don't know if I have the intellectual background and the confidence to disprove his belief.

You are not going to disprove his belief, no matter what. He's been doing that since he was 1 year old. His livelihood and his lifestyle depend on his beliefs. Or at least, acting like he believes. If I could get behind the checkbook of one of those megachurches, I'd act like I believed also.

 

[corndog67]

I was born Catholic and converted to Born-Again Christian when I was about 12. I am 26 now. A few weeks ago, I got a phone call from my Mom and family asking when I was going to Baptize my son who is now 3 months old. I guess I shouldn't be shocked that they did not even ask me IF I was going to baptize him instead of jumping to WHEN it would happen.

After discussing with my wife, we decided that we would wait for him to be old enough to make the decision on his own free will. After I told my family that, it was like they disowned me and my son. They said that evil spirits can come into his body and he will get sick... etc...

I hung up on them

That's that brainwashing thing. I guess they believe it, and they are trying to guilt you into doing what they want.,

 

[CoorsLight]

As a scientist, I find it distressing that both religious and non-religious folks generally seem to view science and religion as either incompatible or non-complementary pursuits. Science doesn't prove religion wrong, or vice versa. But religious zealots who use arguments like, "oh dark matter...explain that...you can't so God must exist," do nothing but create an unnecessary schism between science and religion. Bill O'Reilly said that the tides are unexplained by science and therefore prove the existence of God. The argument that the unknown proves the existence of a god is only good until scientific mysteries are solved. O'Reilly just didn't know that the tides weren't a scientific mystery.

Likewise, people who think science can answer every question, either now or in the future, are displaying a comparable amount of "faith" as any churchgoer.

Not too long ago, the clerics and shamans were also the scientists. For example, Genesis is a good account of the origin of the universe and the evolution of man if one doesn't take the details literally. Some concepts of Taoism and Buddhism are metaphorically reflected in quantum physics. The divide that has grown between the science and religion is more of an issue of control over people's minds and opinions than an issue of inherent incompatibility, IMO.