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0-60 MPH in 2.8 Seconds

Both Honda and Toyota think that hydrogen is the way of the future. But hydrogen production is expensive.
 
Archimedes said:
Interesting comments this week from Toyota's head about battery vs. hydrogen and why they still think electric is a losing proposition compared to the hydrogen fuel cell. The race for infrastructure kinda reminds me of the VHS v. Betamax war.
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Got a link? I'd be super curious to read their current take.
 
Hydrogen would already be the #1 fuel source, I believe, if it wasn't for the production issues. It isn't cheap and we mostly use fossil fuels to make it. Making the whole idea kinda stupid until they find a better solution and can scale it up.
 
I agree with him, to a certain extent. I don't think battery technology is dead in the water. It's just better suited for certain types of driving.
 
MikeL said:
Hydrogen would already be the #1 fuel source, I believe, if it wasn't for the production issues. It isn't cheap and we mostly use fossil fuels to make it. Making the whole idea kinda stupid until they find a better solution and can scale it up.
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The big issue with hydrogen fuel isn't really the production cost, as even the more costly renewable sources make economic sense when you consider how much more efficient it is than gasoline. It's the cost of building out the delivery infrastructure that's the challenge.

Making hydrogen from fossil fuels is actually relatively cheap, though it's not as environmentally sound.
 
m_asim said:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/brookec...ic-vehicles-have-fundamental-physics-problem/
http://www.toyota.com/mirai/
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This guy did not eve scratch the surface of the issue.

Funny quote too:

"Note that for short distances around town battery-powered “electrics are perfect,” according to a Toyota"

This is funny, because 78% of commuters drive less than 40 miles a day.

Its hard not to draw the conclusion that Toyota says that BEVs are perfect for 78% and the rest should have plug-in hybrids with fuel cell range extenders.

I would agree with that, but the return on the investment of a fuel cell range extender vs gasoline is horrible when the Median Chevy Volt drivers only uses $312 worth of gas per year.
 
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JesasaurusRex said:
2.6 hours ain't shit
Unless you're rolling in the dough electric cars are retarded.
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Most commuters drive less than 75 miles a day.

I can buy a used nissan leaf for around $12,000.

If I commuted I would own one. My commute is 2.1 miles, I don't need an efficient or new vehicle for that. If I was driving 50 miles a day, the leaf would be in my garage right now.
 
Meter Man said:
Most commuters drive less than 75 miles a day.

I can buy a used nissan leaf for around $12,000.

If I commuted I would own one. My commute is 2.1 miles, I don't need an efficient or new vehicle for that. If I was driving 50 miles a day, the leaf would be in my garage right now.
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god forbid you want to drive somewhere further on the weekend
 
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JesasaurusRex said:
god forbid you want to drive somewhere further on the weekend
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Almost everyone I know has multiple vehicles. I have 6.

A $12,000 commute only vehicle (here in Colorado they give you about $2,000 tax credit for used eve making it about $10k), is certainly reasonable if one has a separate conventional rig.

Commute vehicles are disposable items. I doubt most people are commuting in a pricey luxury vehicle. One would have trouble finding a Honda Civic of 2012 vintage for $12,000.
 
Meter Man said:
Almost everyone I know has multiple vehicles. I have 6.

A $12,000 commute only vehicle (here in Colorado they give you about $2,000 tax credit for used eve making it about $10k), is certainly reasonable if one has a separate conventional rig.

Commute vehicles are disposable items. I doubt most people are commuting in a pricey luxury vehicle. One would have trouble finding a Honda Civic of 2012 vintage for $12,000.
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Did you bother reading the rest of the thread or just bounce from page 1 to here?
 
JesasaurusRex said:
Did you bother reading the rest of the thread or just bounce from page 1 to here?
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Don't be so fucking hostile.

I read the whole thread. Your point about range is weak. There are electric options for almost all personal use scenarios. One can spend $10k to north of $100k based on needs and wants.

The thread started about the upcoming cheap version of tesla. The rest of the thread mentioned 4 other EVs. You made a statement that is both objectively and subjectively false. Don't get mad because I didn't agree.
 
how is my point about range weak when your solution is buying another vehicle?
I'm not being hostile, it's just we already covered multiple vehicles on other pages. You made a post acting like this was some fresh idea.
 
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JesasaurusRex said:
how is my point about range weak when your solution is buying another vehicle?
I'm not being hostile, it's just we already covered multiple vehicles on other pages. You made a post acting like this was some fresh idea.
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I interpreted your post as hostile. My apologies for misreading the tone.

Nobody mentioned a leaf as far as I read it. Likewise nobody mentioned that one can purchase a leaf for $12k, cheaper than equivalent year compact cars. The closest mentioned was the Volt at $20k.

Your range argument is weak because the majority of drivers never exceed the leaf range on a normal day. I don't think I know any couple that owns only one vehicle. A single vehicle household by its very nature requires compromises for a vehicle.

For 60% of households An electric for a second vehicle makes sense. For a wealthy single vehicle household a tesla might make sense.

In regard to road trips.....hasn't anyone else seen people rent a car for a road trip? Almost everyone I know does this. Maybe it is a Colorado/MontanA/Washington thing? My Midwestern cousins do this too.
 
Meter Man said:
I interpreted your post as hostile. My apologies for misreading the tone.

Nobody mentioned a leaf as far as I read it. Likewise nobody mentioned that one can purchase a leaf for $12k, cheaper than equivalent year compact cars. The closest mentioned was the Volt at $20k.

Your range argument is weak because the majority of drivers never exceed the leaf range on a normal day. I don't think I know any couple that owns only one vehicle. A single vehicle household by its very nature requires compromises for a vehicle.

For 60% of households An electric for a second vehicle makes sense. For a wealthy single vehicle household a tesla might make sense.

In regard to road trips.....hasn't anyone else seen people rent a car for a road trip? Almost everyone I know does this. Maybe it is a Colorado/MontanA/Washington thing? My Midwestern cousins do this too.
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20k new plus 2.5k for charging station? That really is pretty good for a second vehicle.
 
I test drove a Model S a little while ago. It's cool that it's an electric car and it goes quick in a straight line at low speeds but once that novelty wore off, there wasn't much with it that made me want one.

- There's a floor rise in the back which makes the back seat passengers have to keep their feet higher than normal. I can't imagine passengers enjoying that for long journeys.
- The interior for the price doesn't compare with German luxury vehicles
- The weight of the car can be felt at all times. I can't imagine brakes holding up for some spirited backroads run. Frankly, it's not any fun to try and rail heavy cars in general

Still I'm rooting for Tesla and wish them success. They're a market disruption that will lead to an arms race in tech improvement and overall efficiency. However, I'll be rooting from the sidelines for now.
 
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Meter Man said:
Almost everyone I know has multiple vehicles. I have 6.

A $12,000 commute only vehicle (here in Colorado they give you about $2,000 tax credit for used eve making it about $10k), is certainly reasonable if one has a separate conventional rig.

Commute vehicles are disposable items. I doubt most people are commuting in a pricey luxury vehicle. One would have trouble finding a Honda Civic of 2012 vintage for $12,000.
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:wtf Don't know if serious or if you just think the rest of the U.S. is like this bubble we live in here in Silicon Valley. The average American owns one vehicle, which they use for everything they do. A large majority of them commute fairly long distances in them and/or use them for long trips and/or work.
 
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