5 dead in fatal motorcycle crash

[SuperMike]

It's likely that the "victim" car, the one that was forced to take evasive action and swerved onto the shoulder and then into the motorcycles, was being driven by someone who just started jerking the wheel around like a monkey on crack as soon as they saw the oncoming Civic.

(One driver's poor judgment) + (another driver's lack of attention/skill) =

 

[crick]

It's likely that the "victim" car, the one that was forced to take evasive action and swerved onto the shoulder and then into the motorcycles, was being driven by someone who just started jerking the wheel around like a monkey on crack as soon as they saw the oncoming Civic.

(One driver's poor judgment) + (another driver's lack of attention/skill) =

its hard to say without knowing what the shoulder is like. The shoulder could easily be dirt and gravel and the road could easily be 4 inches height difference with the shoulder - veering into it and back onto the asphalt WILL get u to loose traction.

Man stories like this make me sad. I was riding behind an impatient cager up on 84. Saw him break the double yellow to pass the guy during a BLIND fuggin corner. People are impatient.

besides that... we dunno the stretch of road he was trying to pass on... but if he WAS trying to pass 12 bikes... that's a lotta bikes.

 

[YanaBanana]

to all the victims, and speedy recovery to all the injured; condolences and strength to all the rest...



YanaBanana

 

[sliverstorm]

I understand the rush to blame the driver of the car doing the passing.

But perhaps the driver of the car doing the passing thought they had
a clear shot but the group of riders decided to close the gap or
speed up? I agree the driver should have stopped, but maybe
they were frightened by the mass of riders?

If the group is not letting you pass, then you don't pass. You ONLY pass when it is SAFE to pass, and in that situation it would not be safe.

 

[sliverstorm]

It's likely that the "victim" car, the one that was forced to take evasive action and swerved onto the shoulder and then into the motorcycles, was being driven by someone who just started jerking the wheel around like a monkey on crack as soon as they saw the oncoming Civic.

(One driver's poor judgment) + (another driver's lack of attention/skill) =

It seems kind of hard to believe, but I've seen some crazy mechanics... they swerved off the road, and probably lost traction. The tendency is to try and regain said traction, but the thing is unless you point the wheel in just the right direction, you will suddenly regain traction and rocket off in another direction than you intended. I witnessed this first hand autox'ing, I was pulling a massive (accidental) drift. Full lock, all that. Then suddenly as I exited the turn, tires bit and the car slingshotted to the right, almost 90 degrees away from where I was pointing, aiming and traveling.

Sort of like highsides really.

(the natural response of any driver is to countersteer when they are spinning. This works if you are a really good driver, but if you're not the only good answer is turn into the spin. Which is not second nature.)

 

[Xenophonii]

It seems kind of hard to believe, but I've seen some crazy mechanics... they swerved off the road, and probably lost traction. The tendency is to try and regain said traction, but the thing is unless you point the wheel in just the right direction, you will suddenly regain traction and rocket off in another direction than you intended. I witnessed this first hand autox'ing, I was pulling a massive (accidental) drift. Full lock, all that. Then suddenly as I exited the turn, tires bit and the car slingshotted to the right, almost 90 degrees away from where I was pointing, aiming and traveling.

Sort of like highsides really.

(the natural response of any driver is to countersteer when they are spinning. This works if you are a really good driver, but if you're not the only good answer is turn into the spin. Which is not second nature.)

Seen it happen. Watched a guy try to pass a big rig swerve, and shoot into the treeline. All on a straight road in perfect conditions in a pimped out M3.

RIP riders. I truly hope the driver gets caught.

 

[stigeon]

If the group is not letting you pass, then you don't pass. You ONLY pass when it is SAFE to pass, and in that situation it would not be safe.

/end of story regarding fault

unfortunately the story is just beginning for the families learning to live without their loved ones.

it happened somewhere in this general area, for those making excuses. http://goo.gl/maps/IQhe

 

[dagle]

RIP riders, wrong place at the wrong time

 

[Butch]

I understand the rush to blame the driver of the car doing the passing.

But perhaps the driver of the car doing the passing thought they had
a clear shot but the group of riders decided to close the gap or
speed up? I agree the driver should have stopped, but maybe
they were frightened by the mass of riders?

I have had groups of riders speed up as I tried to pass ....

My point is that groups of riders can cause problems. I think it
is important that folks that participate in group rides realize that.

Yes, of course this is still a tragedy, most especially for
the passengers on the bikes and those people in the
car that crashed, the ones most clearly innocent.

Of course, the driver could have just been a lunatic regardless.

this is really, really significant. I have experienced this many times.
That and the driver of the oncoming car has no skill and lost control.
The DMV gives CDL's to complete incompetents.

 

[Ray]

So here's my question:

You're driving down a two lane road - light (but present) traffic in both directions. - Dirt shoulder your right, but there's a serious lip 2-6 inches and the shoulder is narrow.

You see oncoming traffic, and then suddenly a vehicle pulls out, into your lane, in order to make a pass. The gap is rapidly closing and you realize there is going to be a head on collision with you and the passing vehicle. Do you:

A. Yank the steering wheel into the oncoming lane of traffic even though there are other vehicles there, and if the car in front of you ever gets his shit together, that's the lane he's probably going to go back to.

B. Pull the car hard to the right shoulder. Suspension be damned!

C. Jump on the brakes as hard as humanly possible and attempt to keep the car moving as straight as possible and hope the oncoming car makes it back into his own lane before you collide.

 

[Stormdragon]

C. Jump on the brakes as hard as humanly possible and attempt to keep the car moving as straight as possible and hope the oncoming car makes it back into his own lane before you collide.

Obviously C. Not only do you give the passing driver time to complete the pass, but you've slowed down significantly which will help if you have to make a sudden excursion into the cactus.




I'll also point out that having lived and ridden in that area for 20+ years, even though the road is fairly straight, it's full of washes and slight bends which make for poor sightlines. The original passing driver might have thought there was plenty of time to pass, only to have the oncoming car suddenly 'appear' out of an unnoticed dip in the road. Said driver is still a worthless piece of coyote dung for just running off however.

 

[Sane_Man]

I was in my cage coming back from Vegas, and got stuck for close to an hour behind a hundred three-patcher's. They were going 15 below the speed limit and would have someone swerve out to keep anyone from passing. Pretty much everyone was afraid of them, I guess thinking they would chase you down with chains and clubs if you piss them off. They were taking up BOTH lanes of the highway!!

I finally got around the roadblock bike then started passing them while cutting back into the gaps between bikes. It took a while to get past all those bikes, which stretched at least 3/4 of a mile. They never showed an aggression, so maybe they were all dentists.

If there are miles of traffic backing up behind you, you should pull over and let them pass. Or at least break up into smaller groups. These guys had the attitude that they owned the road, and they weren't willing to let anyone get by them. I was patient for the first 15, then 25, and finally 45 minutes, but they weren't letting anyone by while riding slow.


I hope this group wasn't doing the same thing.

 

[ThumperX]

How horrible for everyone involved. I feel terrible for the driver of the Dodge. Not only were the motorcyclists killed but his passenger as well.
Guessing the Honda driver never looked back in his rear view mirror to see if the Dodge got back on the roadway.
we don't have the full story here. Could be that when the Dodge swerved off the shoulder he struck something, a blowout, a rut?
Just awful.

 

[flying_hun]

 

[wellbredred]

Looks like the "victim" car had a Driver that was DUI. May explain his lack of control.


DUI arrest after motorcycle crashes that killed 5
BY THE ASSOCIATED PRESS,
SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 14, 2010 AT 8:24 A.M.

OCOTILLO, Calif. — The California Highway Patrol says a man who struck a pack of motorcyclists - causing a crash that killed five people and injured six - has been arrested on suspicion of driving under the influence.

CHP Officer Deann Goudie said Sunday that 36-year-old Carlos Ramirez Bobadilla of Mexicali, Mexico, was arrested because his breath smelled of alcohol. Results of a blood test are pending.

Ramirez is recovering from hand fractures at a San Diego hospital. A woman in his white Dodge Avenger was among the five killed.

Goudie says Ramirez won't be held responsible for the deaths based on evidence gathered so far. Authorities are looking for the driver of a gold Honda Accord who forced Ramirez off the road when attempting to pass 12 motorcycles on a remote desert highway east of San Diego.

 

[louemc]

I was in my cage coming back from Vegas, and got stuck for close to an hour behind a hundred three-patcher's. They were going 15 below the speed limit and would have someone swerve out to keep anyone from passing. Pretty much everyone was afraid of them, I guess thinking they would chase you down with chains and clubs if you piss them off. They were taking up BOTH lanes of the highway!!

I finally got around the roadblock bike then started passing them while cutting back into the gaps between bikes. It took a while to get past all those bikes, which stretched at least 3/4 of a mile. They never showed an aggression, so maybe they were all dentists.

If there are miles of traffic backing up behind you, you should pull over and let them pass. Or at least break up into smaller groups. These guys had the attitude that they owned the road, and they weren't willing to let anyone get by them. I was patient for the first 15, then 25, and finally 45 minutes, but they weren't letting anyone by while riding slow.


I hope this group wasn't doing the same thing.

I have a hunch..this falls into that case to some degree. Another news report said it was a pack of 12 bikes...so it sure could of been broken groups...

I've been held up (in my SUV) by two Harley riders, that were going side by side, 20 mph slower that the speed limit, in the (blind corner) twisties, where everyone, goes the speed limit to 10 over the speed limit...so a bike(s) going 20 under...and no way to pass them...=screamin aggravation.

I'll guess, all the parties bear a blame in this...and..none will get charged, because The bikers won't, the vehicle that made the pass, most likely will never be found, and the vehicle that lost control trying to dodge, the passing vehicle can't be faulted either. It started to avoid the passing vehicle, correctly, lost control going off the side of the road, and it was then that it came back and into the on-coming bikes.

This is so tragic, especially with the numbers...hopefully some riding group, will give greater thought...to being a rolling blockade, to others.

 

[I'm OaklandLion]

fucking awful

 

[AOW]

12 Harleys vs. 1 dodge in El Centro, CA

(CNN) -- Five people were killed and six others seriously injured when a car struck a group of 12 motorcycles on a California desert highway Saturday.
"I was one of the first emergency officials on the scene. Of my 23 years on the department, it was the most devastating scene I've been to, and I've seen a lot of fatal accidents," said Deeann Goudie, a spokeswoman for the California Highway Patrol.
Police are searching for another car, which left the scene of the afternoon accident.

 

[Rel]

Wow. Rip riders.

 

[bluenoser]

Heal up, survivors.

The causal driver is a piece of trash who doesn't belong in our society, let alone on our roads.