60's Honda CL 160 Rebuild as Racer

[McGrude]

So back to the nuts and bolts of the project...

You've wire-wheeled the dirt, grime, grunge and oxidation off the aluminum and they look pretty good so far, but the scratches are pretty pronounced. Are you going to go over them with a finer abrasive to reduce the appearance of the scratches? Even perhaps going so far as to shine them up with a polishing compound?

 

[Craig Haggart]

Your posting up your project has got me all excited about 160 racing. I am going to start keeping my eyes peeled for a 160. However, from the looks of yours it's probably going to be difficult to locate one.

Don't worry 'bout a thang, homie! We can find you a bike. So far I've bought three "castoffs" from the Pacific Northwest insaniacs to resell down here in the Bay Area at cost. It's a great way for someone to get on the track ASAP. Or if you have more time than money and access to tools, you can buy a donor bike and turn it into a vintage racer as a labor of love. Either way works.

CB160 racing is awfully fun, and it's most fun when you're out there with a bunch of other 160 racers. We need more in the Bay Area. David is the latest to catch the disease -- you're next!

Anyone interested, get in touch with me and I'll do my best to find you a 160. I'd also be more than happy to e-mail you my "Race A 160" evangelical tract, which I hand out at track days to unsuspecting victims like David. E-mail me at CB160racer@yahoo.com or PM me.

I've also set up a yahoo list for Bay Area 160 racers as a way for us locals to arrange for track days together and suchlike: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/california160s/. We had 9 at T-Hill recently, where we strafed B group all day. You can laugh all you want at my ancient little 11hp kiddie bike with itty bitty tires and Schwinn dingie bell, but even I passed a couple of modern sportbikes in the corners -- in B group -- and I am by far the slowest rider on the slowest 160. Our fast riders will really surprise you!

And David, you're a trouper for digging into that barn find. It's obvious that you are going to make it into a really nice little racer. It's also obvious that you're a great addition to our group.

 

[Sidewalk]

There was rumor a while back that OW Racing was considering racing with M1GP. I am really hoping for it, that would be a ton of fun.

 

[Craig Haggart]

We NMP'ed a guy in '08, his rear wheel taco'ed coming out of the carousel. He was back this year after recovering from a fractured navicular.

Back and still slow! It was my scaphoid, by the way, and I only fractured that because I instinctively put out my hand as the bike slid out from under me. The rear tire had gone flat because a spoke broke and punctured the inner tube.

And I'm gonna keep working on trying to get you on a 160, too. I seem to recall seeing you at a track day recently, riding a CBR or SV or some such sportybike.

 

[Craig Haggart]

For all you dustbin fairing fans, here's a pic for you from the 160 yahoo group. And it does look hot.

That, by the way, is Mike Polkabla at Bonneville, where he obtained the title "World's Fastest 160" after a blistering run down the salt at a shade over 84mph.

He likes to say that "world's fastest 160" is akin to "world's tallest dwarf."

 

[twitchmonitor]

Oh, definitely not! Polished aluminum can be nice but it:

a) requires way too much work
b) reminds me of chrome, which I don't typically like seeing on motorcycles
c) would seem more fitting on a show bike than a race bike.

Plus I like some texture to my aluminum, and there will be lots of contrast between shiny aluminum, sandblasted aluminum, scratched aluminum, etc.

So back to the nuts and bolts of the project...

You've wire-wheeled the dirt, grime, grunge and oxidation off the aluminum and they look pretty good so far, but the scratches are pretty pronounced. Are you going to go over them with a finer abrasive to reduce the appearance of the scratches? Even perhaps going so far as to shine them up with a polishing compound?

 

[twitchmonitor]

Tonight's news:

Applied JB weld to the seriously pitted CL fork tubes. I'll sand them down in a few days and see what comes of it. If it works out I'll do the CB tube as well. CL is the test run.

And while I was at it I employed a trick an oldtime machinist taught me: for threads that have gotten sloppy (in this case from struggling to remove a seized bolt) put a dab of JB weld in the hole, then smear liquid teflon on a bolt of the appropriate size/pitch, screw the bolt in and let the JB weld set. Then just back out the bolt and the threads are rebuilt. Not for applications where the threads will be supporting any real load, but fine for what I'm doing.

And a nice pic of my spacious work area where I'm doing some more glamorous measuring. I'm just double checking how much I have to counterbore the rearsets - that axle is pretty short and doesn't leave much room for error. I've made an appointment at the shop for next week to water jet cut my rearsets.

Edit: Oh, almost forgot. If you look closely in the bottom left corner of the shot of the bolt you can see a tiny master link clip from the cam chain. I "discovered" it buried under a layer of sludge in the bottom of the crankcase while cleaning it tonight. This artifact might be evidence that someone, somewhere, actually did some work on this bike and butterfingered it. Or maybe it was the factory?

 

[akathisia]

Craig,
I've signed up for the yahoo groups and sent you and email. Thanks for all the info. Count me in! I'm ready!

twitchmonitor, thanks for posting your build. I'm having fun following your progress.

cheers,
paul

Don't worry 'bout a thang, homie! We can find you a bike. So far I've bought three "castoffs" from the Pacific Northwest insaniacs to resell down here in the Bay Area at cost. It's a great way for someone to get on the track ASAP. Or if you have more time than money and access to tools, you can buy a donor bike and turn it into a vintage racer as a labor of love. Either way works.

CB160 racing is awfully fun, and it's most fun when you're out there with a bunch of other 160 racers. We need more in the Bay Area. David is the latest to catch the disease -- you're next!

Anyone interested, get in touch with me and I'll do my best to find you a 160. I'd also be more than happy to e-mail you my "Race A 160" evangelical tract, which I hand out at track days to unsuspecting victims like David. E-mail me at CB160racer@yahoo.com or PM me.

I've also set up a yahoo list for Bay Area 160 racers as a way for us locals to arrange for track days together and suchlike: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/california160s/. We had 9 at T-Hill recently, where we strafed B group all day. You can laugh all you want at my ancient little 11hp kiddie bike with itty bitty tires and Schwinn dingie bell, but even I passed a couple of modern sportbikes in the corners -- in B group -- and I am by far the slowest rider on the slowest 160. Our fast riders will really surprise you!

And David, you're a trouper for digging into that barn find. It's obvious that you are going to make it into a really nice little racer. It's also obvious that you're a great addition to our group.

 

[twitchmonitor]

I'm just about done with the design of my rearstand. Standard stands are basically too big to accommodate the tiny distance between spools/swing arm tubes on the 160.

Edit: Version 2 added.

 

[ohio]

Plus I like some texture to my aluminum, and there will be lots of contrast between shiny aluminum, sandblasted aluminum, scratched aluminum, etc.

Does your shop have an anodizing bath? Bare aluminum WILL corrode. Polished takes a long time, sandblasted holds up pretty well, but brushed aluminum just exposes too much surface area and will be a powdery white mess in no time with Bay Area salty air, especially where it meets steel bolts.

 

[twitchmonitor]

Does your shop have an anodizing bath? Bare aluminum WILL corrode. Polished takes a long time, sandblasted holds up pretty well, but brushed aluminum just exposes too much surface area and will be a powdery white mess in no time with Bay Area salty air, especially where it meets steel bolts.

Unfortunately I don't have access to that. I'll have to rely on the passivating film and the fact that the bike will live indoors primarily. Maybe I can do that later on, when I have some $$ and can attend to the little things I'd like to, like that.

Unless someone here has such facilities and would be willing to help out a fellow BARFer

 

[CB160-Racer]

Great looking build!!

My project CB160 is at about the same place as yours.

Check it out here:
http://www.classichondabb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29

I just signed up here so I can keep tabs on your progress.

Regards,

Simon

 

[trepanned23]

Nice work, twitchmonitor, enjoying the thread. Not to be a complete buzzkill but won't you need to put fresh rims and new bridgestones on this bike if you're going to race it?

Seems like the peace of mind you'd get from having track contact items brand new would make going over budget worth it.

Those guys over at the 160 forums had a handle on a group buy - new aluminum rims from a European vendor for a pretty good price. Rims, lacing with good fresh spokes and new rubber is going to take you right to the limit of your budget? - at least. And they get their tires at a great price too.

Then there's brakes . . . I'm just adding everything up here and remember two years ago when I restored and race prepped my 67 Bultaco 250 for AHRMA racing - the bill from Vintage Brake for Excel rims (F&B), ss spokes, lacing and V2520 riveted compounds on just the front brake (71 CB350)= 1450.00 USD - worth every penny too because I can stop as well or better as some disc brake set ups I've had.

Dunlop racing tires from RC Barker = 400.00

I just don't don't see how you're going to do this racing set up safely for 450.00
_____________________________________________________
Just since I'm thinking about it at the moment, here's a quick breakdown of the associated costs incurred in my tiddler project:
Bike: 1968 Yamaha YCS1C 180cc twin
Purpose: AHRMA legal 200GP class road racing
_____________________________________________________
The bike: eBay local find 346.00
Excel aluminum rims, ss spokes mounting to OEM hubs, etc 800.00
Brakes, relined by Industrial Truck Inc. HD compound 146.00
Control cabling parts and levers, Flanders Co. 75.00
Clip ons, Paolo Tarozzi, internet find 115.00
Tires, Avon RoadRunner F&B, RC Barker Co. 300.00
Fork seals, eBay find 30.00
Misc. replacement fasteners, McMaster-Carr 100.00
Swingarm Bushes, Vintage Yamaha Co. 40.00
Frame Paint, "Spray Gray" Eastwood Co. 50.00
Engine Porting, Scott Clough Racing Engines 300.00
Carbs, Mikuni VM 22 (2) Sudco 150.00
Expansion Chambers, Scott Clough Racing(includes R&D) 350.00
PVL Electronic ignition Penton Racing Products Co. 600.00
Various machine work that I couldn't do myself. 200.00
Cylinder boring / honing 200.00
Cylinder head work, Scott Clough Racing 250.00
Misc. hardware, abrasive pads, sandpaper, cleaning supplies etc 175.00
New Fairing, Yamaha TD3, Local fabficator 180.00
Sculpting foam, Tank, Seat assy, rear fender, 80.00
Epoxy resin, fibre, brushes, squeegees, etc 200.00
Bodywork paint, Krylon Multi Purpose, West Whittier Paint Co. 24.00
Bodywork supplies, 400gr, 1000gr, foam pads, tack cloth, etc 35.00
Clearcoat, Spraymax 2K (2part) X 2 50.00
Polishing compound, pads etc 40.00
Numbers, eBay 10.00
Bubble, Gustaffson Windscreens Co. 120.00
Mistakes, misorders, bought the wrong parts. over 200.00
Racing Clutch Kit 150.00
My Labor, several hundred hours 000.00
________________________________________________________________
TOTAL: 5,316.00
Now you can see why I chose to rattle can the finish. I figured that since I've done everything else myself, it is Christmas time, and the professional paint jobs I had quoted were from 1200.00 - 1500.00. Add 1400 to 5316 and you get 6,716. BTW, after hours of study and talking to professionals, I did the paint right and it looks perfectly servicable for a racebike, in fact, I surprised myself, it looks good.

Granted, Most of the things listed above, especially the 2 stroke specific things like expansion chambers for a twin, the bodywork supplies, and some other stuff are not applicable to your project, but make no mistake, the wheels, brakes and tires are things that are going to keep you in the vertical position on a race track and keep you out of a hospital. Those 160's are hella fast for 14 hp (claimed) mostly because most of the riders are expert that are racing them and DO NOT LIFT IN TURNS - I know, it's fun to talk about how slow and easy to pilot, low dollar etc, etc the Group W F160 deal is but show me a racing development project in which the goal is to beat the other guys and I'll show you cost over runs and a budget that over time gets pretty much tossed.

My bike is fully GP kitted and thats a ton of costs and labor, I assume your bike will have a single small fairing and stock tank?

I spent that 5.5K over the course of two years so It's not as bad as it looks. I have a tiddler 68 Yamaha twin that will pull 30HP (crank) at 10K. Just for fun. Now if I can lose about 60 lbs, I should be good to go! ;-)

Don't get me wrong! I like what you're doing and you seem to have a lot of varied skills and seem to be a smart guy, Just don't be afraid to spend extra dollars on the important stuff, which in my opinion is wheels, brakes and of course, tires! The engine stuff is not as super critical, IMHO. - especially if you're going to grid this bike for the first time this year.

I hope to see you at Willow Springs in April, Portland in May and Miller MSP in September!

 

[twitchmonitor]

I think the 160 guys go with Avon Roadrunner tires that sell for about $70 a piece (hm, I see that's what you're using but you seem to have a different price - what size tires do you run?). I'm keeping the stock rims and relacing them myself...it looks like the spokes should run me about $70 or so. The steel rims are heavy but completely safe. As for the brakes, I'd like to get them relined but frankly I haven't even felt them yet so I'm going to assumed that they're usable unless they prove otherwise when I'm done. If so I'll get them relined. From what I hear though you don't do much braking with these bikes anyway as you need to maintain your corner speed if you want to get anywhere.

As for bodywork I'm using the stock tank, have received a race tail (complete with number plates!) as a gift, and will probably be fabricating a small fairing, not much more than a number plate, really. Probably something similar to the pic of the green 160 I posted at the beginning of this thread. Just a simple, quick layup. Hell, I might not even go to the trouble of making a female mold.

My budget will have to stay low because that's all I have. I have went way over budget on other projects, easily too. But this one will either be on budget or not on track. If I can't do it it'll probably have to wait until I have some income and then I'll finish it. I'm aiming to be on track next season, but if I miss some of the season or even all of it there'll be next season and trackdays.

As for how I'm going to keep the whole thing under budget....you'll have to stay tuned.

In the meantime I'd love to see pics of your build, sounds cool!

 

[Mick-e]

Hey Twicth,
You realize you'll have to do the AHRMA round at WSMC, and maybe Miller.
You can race the CB160, and there's a class for modern twins.
BOTT-LW (Battle of the Twins Light Weight)
I've raced AHRMA on my EX500, and EX650.
I was hoping to find a vintage ride this year too.

 

[Gabe]

I know you can keep close to your budget and build a safe, functioning bike. I think this kind of thing is great for motorcycling because it'll pull in younger riders who want something cool that they DON'T have to spend $5000 on.

I think the 160 guys go with Avon Roadrunner tires that sell for about $70 a piece (hm, I see that's what you're using but you seem to have a different price - what size tires do you run?). I'm keeping the stock rims and relacing them myself...it looks like the spokes should run me about $70 or so. The steel rims are heavy but completely safe. As for the brakes, I'd like to get them relined but frankly I haven't even felt them yet so I'm going to assumed that they're usable unless they prove otherwise when I'm done. If so I'll get them relined. From what I hear though you don't do much braking with these bikes anyway as you need to maintain your corner speed if you want to get anywhere.

As for bodywork I'm using the stock tank, have received a race tail (complete with number plates!) as a gift, and will probably be fabricating a small fairing, not much more than a number plate, really. Probably something similar to the pic of the green 160 I posted at the beginning of this thread. Just a simple, quick layup. Hell, I might not even go to the trouble of making a female mold.

My budget will have to stay low because that's all I have. I have went way over budget on other projects, easily too. But this one will either be on budget or not on track. If I can't do it it'll probably have to wait until I have some income and then I'll finish it. I'm aiming to be on track next season, but if I miss some of the season or even all of it there'll be next season and trackdays.

As for how I'm going to keep the whole thing under budget....you'll have to stay tuned.

In the meantime I'd love to see pics of your build, sounds cool!

 

[rama]

Applied JB weld to the seriously pitted CL fork tubes. I'll sand them down in a few days and see what comes of it.

Interesting- let us know how this holds up.

And while I was at it I employed a trick an oldtime machinist taught me: for threads that have gotten sloppy (in this case from struggling to remove a seized bolt) put a dab of JB weld in the hole, then smear liquid teflon on a bolt of the appropriate size/pitch, screw the bolt in and let the JB weld set. Then just back out the bolt and the threads are rebuilt.

Nice trick! Have any more?

Does your shop have an anodizing bath? Bare aluminum WILL corrode. Polished takes a long time, sandblasted holds up pretty well, but brushed aluminum just exposes too much surface area and will be a powdery white mess in no time with Bay Area salty air, especially where it meets steel bolts.

Even if it were sitting exposed to the elements, aluminum will form a protective oxidation layer quickly that *should* prevent further oxidation, no? Maybe dissimilar metals will accelerate that, but I haven't seen "powdery white messes" on anything that was reasonably cared for, regardless of the age.

 

[twitchmonitor]

Correct; aluminum will corrode to some degree, like all metals, but not noticeably due to the formation of a passivating oxide layer. I have no worries about that. 50 years of neglect have left my barrels "fuzzy" but I don't expect that with proper care.

I'll post other "tricks" that come up as I go along. And those that don't work also (Easy Off, Coke and foil...). Here's something else: if you don't want to go the JB weld route Permatex actually makes a product designed specifically for repairing worn threads.

http://www.permatex.com/products/Au...ad_repair/Permatex_Stripped_Thread_Repair.htm

The forks are coming along well. I sanded them tonight (well, my girlfriend sanded one and I sanded the other ) and we took the JB weld down a little below the surface so we applied another thin layer of JBW and I'll resand using a block to prevent that from happening again. The craters were filled in though so I feel encouraged. I fully expect it to work.

 

[Stormdragon]

If you're unfamiliar with it, Alodine is a cheap, easy way to put a protective surface on your aluminum. The gold version can vary a lot in color depending on the aluminum, but if you're lucky, it ends up looking like treated magnesium. Bonus bling points.

 

[twitchmonitor]

Engine is finally clean. Now just need gaskets and reassembly.