8 reasons to buy this type of motorcycle

[Jalopyshoppe]

What type of camping do you do? I am into backpacking, no car camping. OTOH, I do RV camping also.

-Don- Reno, NV

My camp/haul rig serves double duty. I take race cars to tracks and support them for rental drivers. So, I have to haul the car, tools, spares, and fuel for the race car, plus have a place to sleep. I used a toy hauler for a long time, but my Land Rover is too tall for the inside, so I built my current rig.

Camping for me is usually in the desert on various lake beds. Twice a year near Fort Irwin, Twice a year to Black Rock (once for Burning Man), twice a year to Johnson Valley. We go on other trips too, but nothing as regular as these. Each of these trips lasts about a week or so. I carry 40 gallons of fresh water, 20 gallons of separate drinking water, a 3500 watt generator, 30 gallons of gas, food and beer for the trip, the Land Rover, and usually 2 motorcycles.

Sadly, an Alta doesn't have the range to handle the desert exploring I do on the bikes. Every day is usually 120 miles of desert riding, which goes from flat out to 30mph roads. I actually have an extra tank of fuel on my CRF to keep myself safe.
My Buell fills the role your Stelvio does. I wish I had that range, but I have a solid 180 miles, which helps. I have an extra can I carry for times when distances between fuel stops are close.

 

[DonTom]

When they make one that looks as good as an AJS 7R....I'll go buy one.

Do you want to ride it or just look at it? And while riding, they are difficult to look at.

But if that's the case, you can get by with a large photo. No need to buy the bike.

But IMO, the red Energica EGO looks great. Perhaps better than any of my bikes, IMO. But I didn't buy that one because I am not a sport rider. I am more into touring type of riding. The SS9 is more into comfort. But it also looks good, IMO.

But I enjoy riding motorcycles more than looking at them.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[maidenfan84]

For $34,000...I'm going to go buy that AJS. Going to look at it AND ride it.

 

[DonTom]

I’m riding the Harley livewire Saturday... I know it’s not the best example of an electric but it’ll be my first ride on one...

At which shop? While the LW is not as good as a 30K$ bike should be, IMO, I think you will still be impressed by the LW's performance. But I would suggest trying and learning about other E-bikes before deciding on the LW, in case you have any intention of buying it after a ride.

I’ll have to ride up to Auburn one day when you’re there and buy you lunch... and check out the electrics. I still love the sound of a gas engine, maybe if zero or another manufacturer would sacrifice a few watts for a speaker...

IMO, motorcycles should be seen and not heard! I like the noise from the electrics. The Zeros sound like a BART train to me. The Energica has more noise and sounds kinda weird, but still has a nice sound, IMO.

I am curious what the artificial noise from the LW will sound like.

I will be in Auburn next week. I am pretty flexible on where I stay and for how long. I am retired and widowed so I have a lot of free time. And I will buy your lunch if you come up that way.

My Energica and Zero DS is at Auburn right now. I have five of my ten motorcycles in Auburn right now. I came back here in my Tesla M3 (LR, AWD) last time because I had too much to carry back. And I will drive back there in it. But I will probably ride back after staying there for several days or a week or so.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[295566]

At which shop? While the LW is not as good as a 30K$ bike should be, IMO, I think you will still be impressed by the LW's performance. But I would suggest trying and learning about other E-bikes before deciding on the LW, in case you have any intention of buying it after a ride.

IMO, motorcycles should be seen and not heard! I like the noise from the electrics. The Zeros sound like a BART train to me. The Energica has more noise and sounds kinda weird, but still has a nice sound, IMO.

I am curious what the artificial noise from the LW will sound like.

I will be in Auburn next week. I am pretty flexible on where I stay and for how long. I am retired and widowed so I have a lot of free time. And I will buy your lunch if you come up that way.

My Energica and Zero DS is at Auburn right now. I have five of my ten motorcycles in Auburn right now. I came back here in my Tesla M3 (LR, AWD) last time because I had too much to carry back. And I will drive back there in it. But I will probably ride back after staying there for several days or a week or so.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

What can I say? I am hooked on EVs. The Tesla has none of the limitations of the motorcycles because they have excellent charging infrastructure as well as more than a 300 mile range (at 65 MPH).

But the electric motorcycles are more fun to ride than driving any car. Or any ICE bike, IMO.

BTW, the last long trip I took in my Tesla was to Mountain View, CA to buy my Energica SS9 at Cal Moto BMW last August.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

OK, my turn.

8 reasons to NOT buy an e-motorcycle:

1) Range sucks

Seriously. Less range than an Aprilia Tuono. Nobody needs that unless you're buying for a commuter.

2) Price is high

For what you get vs. comparatively priced ICE motorcycles.

3) Lack of charging infrastructure

Sorry, but fast chargers are just too few and far in between considering the bad freeway range of these bikes.

Zeros can't even use fast chargers. Another epic fail.

4) Hard/impossible to do maintenance yourself

Everything is computerized and proprietary. I hate my Tesla for this. You need the factory/dealer laptop to do work on the critical components.

5) Lack of dealer or independent service infrastructure


It's just not there. Ask your local moto indy shop to repair something in your motor.

6) Evolving very quick.

The bike you buy today for $20K will have half the features and range of the same model that you'll buy in 2-3 years.

7) Lack of premium features at a premium price.

Where is the dynamic suspension? At this price point, I expect a bike to have it.

8) Bad resale value

It's a niche bike, so you'll have a very small pool of customers willing to buy. Moreso, since the tech evolves so quick, you're guaranteed extreme depreciation.

The only one there that is an issue to me is number 3, which is improving fast. The rest I do not care about, YMMV. But IMO, that was a very good list, the disadvantages need to be shown as well, as what we each care about will be different.

EVs may be much like computers were a few years back, twice the features for half the price every year or so.

The best time to buy any of this stuff will probably be well after we are dead. But then, we will most likely have no use for it. So I refuse to wait when it's already good enough for me.

Like Energica says "Electric is the future--and the future is now".

And since I never sell motor vehicles, re-sale value is especially not an issue to me. I bought my 1971 BMW new in 1971. It's always repairable, parts still made for it (and often made a lot better) so it lasts a very long time. I keep all vehicles until it's time to call the junkyard.

If EV's are repairable depends on what is wrong. My Tesla is only a year old and has less than 5K miles on it, but I have had no problems. What problem did you have?

In my Zero SR, the ABS crapped out. So I measured the rear wheel sensor, which measured 50KΩ. The front was infinite, so I ordered another from AF1 and now all is fine. It was easy to fix.


-Don- Reno, NV

 

[295566]

What can I say? I am hooked on EVs. The Tesla has none of the limitations of the motorcycles because they have excellent charging infrastructure as well as more than a 300 mile range (at 65 MPH).

But the electric motorcycles are more fun to ride than driving any car. Or any ICE bike, IMO.

BTW, the last long trip I took in my Tesla was to Mountain View, CA to buy my Energica SS9 at Cal Moto BMW last August.

-Don- Reno, NV

You misunderstood. Tesla does not make an M3.

 

[Kornholio]

The biggest reason people these days are opposed to electric vehicles sounds very similar to the reasons people were opposed to ICE vehicles at the turn of the 20th century...

"Gasoline isn't widely available...my horses don't need gasoline and can be "refueled" anywhere.

Give it time, folks. The times are changing and you can either get on board or continue to be a Luddite. Are they mainstream yet? No. Will they be in my lifetime? Quite possibly...especially given the changes and advancements that have taken place in the last 10-15 years. Big oil is the biggest hurdle in my opinion but even they can't stop the changes from coming. Public perception is changing and the infrastructure will be changing too. It's coming.

 

[DonTom]

You misunderstood. Tesla does not make an M3.

Tesla makes the Model Three. BMW makes the M3, which I now assume is what you meant.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

T Big oil is the biggest hurdle in my opinion but even they can't stop the changes from coming.

But perhaps they tried. Some of the early EVs used a disk to charge. There are still some of those old disk charge stations in CA (such as the one at the Colfax Train Station, south of the building, next to the J-1772 charge station). But not a single vehicle in the USA exists to use it.

I have heard the oil companies successfully got rid of all those first EVs. Most were owned by small city governments and such. Somehow they all got turned in, when still fairly new, but nobody seems to know exactly why. The rumors are it had something to do with the oil companies. Those early EVs got replaced with ICE vehicles, of course.

Perhaps the oil companies delayed it a bit, but they cannot stop EVs from coming popular.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[mean dad]

The biggest reason people these days are opposed to electric vehicles sounds very similar to the reasons people were opposed to ICE vehicles at the turn of the 20th century...

"Gasoline isn't widely available...my horses don't need gasoline and can be "refueled" anywhere.

Give it time, folks. The times are changing and you can either get on board or continue to be a Luddite. Are they mainstream yet? No. Will they be in my lifetime? Quite possibly...especially given the changes and advancements that have taken place in the last 10-15 years. Big oil is the biggest hurdle in my opinion but even they can't stop the changes from coming. Public perception is changing and the infrastructure will be changing too. It's coming.

I'm almost positive everyone here has already said this same thing with fewer words.
They're close but not worth the money yet due to their limitations.

 

[discoganya]

I definitely want an e-bike. But the're like $25k new no (e.g. Energica)?

I will buy one when they show up for $5k used on Craigslist. I get all the pro-s of e-bikes, the price is the only impediment, as simple as that.

 

[295566]

I definitely want an e-bike. But the're like $25k new no (e.g. Energica)?

I will buy one when they show up for $5k used on Craigslist. I get all the pro-s of e-bikes, the price is the only impediment, as simple as that.

This right here.

No reason to pay 3-5 times as much for a bike that has much more limitation on it. Not too mention nowhere to charge at home...

 

[DonTom]

I definitely want an e-bike. But the're like $25k new no (e.g. Energica)?

I will buy one when they show up for $5k used on Craigslist. I get all the pro-s of e-bikes, the price is the only impediment, as simple as that.

Zeros are a lot cheaper. The price on the smaller Zeros is reasonable and are great get around town bikes. I find my 2017 Zero DS ZF 6.5 takes the place of my cars more so than another bike.

See here for the many different models and prices. Cheaper used, of course.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[DonTom]

Not too mention nowhere to charge at home...

That would turn me off from EVs also. Especially for the cheaper Zeros that take many hours to charge. Being able to charge at home is important, IMO.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[clutchslip]

....... The times are changing and you can either get on board or continue to be a Luddite. Are they mainstream yet? No. Will they be in my lifetime? Quite possibly...especially given the changes and advancements that have taken place in the last 10-15 years. Big oil is the biggest hurdle in my opinion but even they can't stop the changes from coming. Public perception is changing and the infrastructure will be changing too. It's coming.

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Electric vehicles were mass produced in the United States in the earily 1900s. They were replaced with ICEs in a free and open market, because the Ford ICE was cheaper and superior transportation. Big oil doesn't have to do anything but provide gasoline. They aren't slamming electric vehicles. They don't have to do that. Everyone doesn't want to wait eight hours to get away from the fire in their back yard. Or sit on the side of the road for an hour to get to grandma's house. Internal combustion engines superseded electric vehicles over a hundred years ago. So who is the Luddite, exactly?

 

[DonTom]

Internal combustion engines superseded electric vehicles over a hundred years ago. So who is the Luddite, exactly?

ICE vehicles changed very little since then, when compared to EVs.

I seriously doubt the old EVs used a 3-phase AC motor with regen and all that. Back in those days, it was just DC running a motor directly. Very inefficient.

Range was around 20 miles, and the top speed was around 35 MPH on those old EVs at around year 1900. Gasoline was MUCH better in those days--if you could find a place that would sell it!

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[orbframe]

ICE vehicles changed very little since then, when compared to EVs.

I seriously doubt the old EVs used a 3-phase AC motor with regen and all that. Back in those days, it was just DC running a motor directly. Very inefficient.

Range was around 20 miles, and the top speed was around 35 MPH on those old EVs at around year 1900. Gasoline was MUCH better in those days--if you could find a place that would sell it!

-Don- Reno, NV

ice vehicles have changed very little since then? come on even you have to recognize that's not accurate...

 

[DonTom]

ice vehicles have changed very little since then? come on even you have to recognize that's not accurate...

Still a spark plug exploding gasoline moving a piston down in the same ways as always.

But today's EVs use a complicated waveform (a type of PWM) in three phases, every 120° to make a 360° rotation, unlike the old EVs that were simply DC to a DC motor. No comparison between old EVs and new.

BTW, did you notice my message 84 here? Shouldn't you be riding that LiveWire today? Where at?

-Don- Reno, NV