AFM race Gridding (split from Life Flight thread)

[Lazerus]

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=corp&group=06001-07000&file=6330-6338


6337. In any action or proceeding under this article, and except as
required by Section 6331, if the court finds the failure of the
corporation to comply with a proper demand thereunder was without
justification, the court may award the member reasonable costs and
expenses, including reasonable attorneys' fees, in connection with
such action or proceeding.

^^^ That's a doosie

 

[afm199]

NO-ONE signed up for this stuffing BS.
Hairball races starts at Inf-yes
Starting Against the Inner Wall--Sucks--but-Yes
Racers being stupid on race starts in T1 thru T4--yes = race incidents-Yes
Stuffing Riders in the WORST place in the grid=FUCK NO

It was a mistake. No doubt. That is how we discover mistakes are made. No one signed up for it? Anyone who gridded signed up for it. Anyone who grids can leave the grid if they don't feel safe. There is no AFM by law that stipulates grid spacing or size. Should stuffing stop? Yes.

 

[cardinal03]

if that rider was dead, would it be appropriate? cause he was damm close

I guess I've seen so much worse in the news on a daily basis it really just doesn't bother me.

 

[markermck]

^^^ That's a doosie

Yeah, especially coming from another board member.

 

[Trackho]

It was a mistake. No doubt. That is how we discover mistakes are made. No one signed up for it? Anyone who gridded signed up for it. Anyone who grids can leave the grid if they don't feel safe. There is no AFM by law that stipulates grid spacing or size. Should stuffing stop? Yes.

No twasnt a mistake, Patty asks these guys if its OK--but she doesnt ask the rest of the grid, namely Eric in this case, as it will obviously affect those closer to the stuffee. Was there a mistake in registarion--Prolly--but grid stuffing isnt the answer. This happened to others at Inf, and to some folks at BW. The BW folks have filed the same motion as I. So it should be an interesting board meeting (next Wendsday--right???)

So what are your choices?? The 2 board is up and someone slips between you and the wall--What are you gonna do??
a) Throw up your arms?? Well you got about 50 guys blowing by you whenst you stopped--to me, the odds that 1 of those 50 arent going to see you--and nail you are very high--Prolly best to make the best of it and hope nothing bad in the asspack dept happens
b) Get off the grid???--I doubt that you would have time, even if you idd, I think few would sacrifice their race--Nor do I think they should have too when T/S fucked them
c) Go for it and hope for the best--Thats what everyone I know has done--if all goes well, bitching to the board isnt very high on the to-do list. However, now we have someone, Eric, seriously hurt, grid stuffing wasnt the only factor, but it certainly was a contributing factor, and one of the few that can be remedied--So it needs to be done--ASAP

I know first hand how fucked up starts can be at Inf, last August I got taken out by someone that thought motocross style was the way to start--I paid the price (of starting next to the wall), luckily I didnt get run over. Fortunately, the gentleman saw the error of his ways--and is trying to fix it. Im asking the afm to do the same

 

[machete]

Grid stuffing seems to have been going on for a long time. Nothing we can do about that. We can, however, do something now, that it is at the forefront of problems. As with anything else, it usually takes a major tragedy or injury to bring these subjects to light.
So what to do? Well, the board meeting is coming up and this subject should be (might already be) placed on the agenda. and hopefully it will be something that is handled in a proper manner. I'm for eliminating it myself.

Ultimately all decisions rest on the race directors shoulders. They are the top person, so blaming a racer for going where they are told they can go, is ludicrous. And did I read right, that we fly in our race director for every race? How much is spent on that? per weekend, flight, lodging, transportation? and how long has it been going on?

I agree that T&S should man up when they make a mistake, or try and work more diligently to avoid such mistakes. As I said before, the mistake of registering me twice for the same race could have easily been solved, by just calling my race number over the loud speakers, quite a long time before the grids are posted.

Race 11 grids were not posted with all the other races either (they only went to Race 10) and then a while later the Race 11 grids were posted. Hence me not knowing that I wasn't on the grid till near the time for my race, and having to go in and figure it out at THAT TIME.

I don't think we need to change the positioning of the grids, just stop stuffing racers in non-existent grid spots.

I like that we can ADD races on race day, IF we are ALREADY signed up for at least one race and the weekend. (I was registered for 650T already, and added Open Twins, and Formula 4 on Sunday morning)

funny that for being one of the "most dangerous" tracks that we race at (due to the walls, and smaller grid area and front straight) that we continue to be so stubborn about having 4 races there. How about adding another THill race, and bringing us back up to 8 races....or switching 1 of the Infineon Races to Thill? certainly questions to ponder.

 

[ZIM]

Yah, I am not sure flying in a race director is needed. Just someone with good communication skills, good (and quick) decision making ability is the key. Not my call but not my recommendation either.

I am with you on the "must have" 4 races at Sears business. Why not add another T-Hill or BW? People who want to race will show and the rest will stay home complaining about cost of racing.

 

[Georgie]

Ultimately all decisions rest on the race directors shoulders. They are the top person, so blaming a racer for going where they are told they can go, is ludicrous. And did I read right, that we fly in our race director for every race? How much is spent on that? per weekend, flight, lodging, transportation? and how long has it been going on?

Flying in a remote RD has been going on for quite a while and as I understand, it was started as an interim measure until a new (read local here) race director could be found after the legacy RD moved back east.

If AFM is truly looking to shave costs this year I wonder why this was not brought up as an action item. I am thinking the born-on date for this situation is way past

I also agree on the "why 4 races at Infineon" thing. As the most expensive track on the agenda, it just doesn't make "cents" fiscally.

 

[Dove]

.

.

Hello logic,
Welcome to the racers corner...enjoy your stay, however short it may be.

 

[Georgie]

Hello logic,
Welcome to the racers corner...enjoy your stay, however short it may be.

Wait'll I add it to a board meeting agenda, then we'll see some fur fly

 

[com3]

I know first hand how fucked up starts can be at Inf, last August I got taken out by someone that thought motocross style was the way to start--I paid the price (of starting next to the wall), luckily I didnt get run over. ...

ha! that guy did you a favor! he kept you outta the 10 bike pileup that happened another 100ft further up the track.

 

[duh_ave]

one thing that i do want to point out (or get clarification?) with all the talk about "they should own up to their mistake [for grid stuffing]" is that the AFM is using the rider down funds or whatever it's called that come from the AFM, right? and the afm's insurance?

its the "Benevolent Fund"
yup, both can be used and I am sure they are being offered

 

[SVeta650S]

It would not be a bad idea for everyone who cares about stopping this grid stuffing and flying in AFM officials from another state to actually show up at the BoD meeting next Wednesday to make sure these issues are actually discussed, an decisions are made.

I can't emphasize enough the importance of being present at the meeting as supposed to reading a transcript the week after. Two main reasons:

1. You get to see for yourself how board members vote and what arguments they use to pass (or not to pass) a measure. You will be surprised at what you get to see and hear.
2. You get to present your own arguments and make sure all your questions are answered. It would help to prepare a list of questions in advance.

Basically, it all goes back to the idea "If you want to do it right, do it yourself".

So, I would highly recommend to show up at this board meeting and make sure we get our answers and get something done instead of just talking about it on line.

Details:
WHEN: Wednesday, May 13
Be there by 7:30 PM as the "general admission" session starts early sometimes
WHERE: Ricky's Sports Grill
15028 Hesperian Blvd
San Leandro, CA 94578

 

[Holeshot]

seeing a friend, regardless of cause/reason/blame/anything, really invokes emotional response from people, methinks.

when a friend gets hurt, it's hard NOT to look for something to blame...deserved or not.

Understandable. Just don't do it "for me" when my time comes, por favor. There's always plenty of time for blame, but bad feelings have no healing power IMO. There's not one club member who isn't feeling hurt from the last race weekend.

 

[SVeta650S]

Understandable. Just don't do it "for me" when my time comes, por favor. There's always plenty of time for blame, but bad feelings have no healing power IMO. There's not one club member who isn't feeling hurt from the last race weekend.

Actions speak louder than words, Berto.

And emotions, for better or for worse, fuel our actions.

I feel that last weekend's event was a result of a following combination: two bad decisions were made on gridding by AFM officials, and some bad judgment calls were made on few riders' side. There is no such thing as bad luck. We make our own luck.

Unfortunately, mistakes do get repeated unless something is done to analyse and address them. And analysis is never easy, because someone will always feel butt-hurt in the process, for whatever reason: people are too sensitive, have bad consciousness, are simply scared etc.etc.

Life is not perfect. We deal with it to our individual best ability. ANd you can't force people to feel and behave the way you do, because we are all different. And we always will be.

 

[machete]

Only if you dont read the TOS and the rules first

Section 4 in the TOS

Responsibilities

Members will conduct themselves in a respectful manner. This is not to say that arguments and disagreements between Members are not permitted, simply that a level of respect is to be maintained in doing so. Members' posts should not contain malicious personal attacks, flaming, baiting, post whoring (posting with the sole purpose of increasing their overall post count), trolling, e-sniping, e-stalking, indirect attacks, and other such activities are not conducive to a positive and productive environment. Such posts will be acted on by interpretation of BARF Moderators.

When personal disputes arise between Members they will take their squabble to Private Message (PM) when requested by Staff to do so. This does not apply to differences of opinion from which others will benefit (arguments pertaining to motorcycling technique, style, history, etc.); it is specifically targeted at those who actively engage in violation of Section 4.1.

Members shall conduct themselves respectfully when in dispute with a Moderator. Verbal abuse of the volunteer staff may result in additional suspension.

Members that smear or otherwise attack the site or moderators are subject to suspension and or removal.

see above in bold: simple.
a request was made on this thread to edit, and it was ignored. guess no one took that into account and forgot to realize that a chance was given, even after a blatant threat. When it was ignored the entire day, we as mods acted on it. boo fucking hoo.

with all the bullshit conspiracy theories going on lately about mods being against the racers and shit, the true topic of this thread is being lost. stay on topic. Lets figure this shit out. Board meeting is next Wednesday. No wonder the conversations/discussions in here are not taken seriously.

The Racers Corner has a big exception to the rules of the TOS. There is more leeway. Whether it's believed or not.

You guys can interpret what you want, but a direct or indirect attack is grounds for suspension, simple...the suspension length is based on that members previous suspensions as well. Everything is voted on, so it's not any one mod that makes a decision to suspend. That is public knowledge. Like Berto said, we will not discuss the specifics of each suspension. Suffice it to say, there has only been 3 as of late.

get over it, move on to the subject at hand.

There is lots of screaming and yelling, and feelings of exhasperation (sp?) over what happened at the last race. If this is what's going to happen at the board meeting, good luck being taken seriously.

and before people start bagging on the AFM yet again...I was looking over the board members, and have to say, that a more Racer oriented board I've never seen. Pretty much every one of them is a Racer, class champion, podium finisher, endurance rider, world racer, (and have been racing for YEARS) etc.. and certainly in favor of what is best for racers...whether you guys down here in the trenches (me included) agree or not.

And Svetlana....you've finished, what? One race? Did you even run the afemme race? Isn't that the one you were most passionate about?
whatever, I don't want to hear the excuses.

Lets get serious:
What is the priority on the agenda for the racers at the next meeting? (serious question, anyone got an answer)

- who all is going to show up?
- Is the main problem going to be to remove grid stuffing? I'm in favor of it.
- Questions about the current Race Director and why a local one has never been searched out?
- How much do we pay per race to bring in a RD from back east?
would it mean that we can salvage a race, or maybe the endurance race with those monies?
- Who's responsibility was it for the grid stuffing? It doesn't matter that timing and scoring, or whomever in that building said they could stuff themselves on the grid, ultimately it has to go through the Race Director, otherwise it doesn't happen.

Again, tragically, these situations rarely have any forward momentum to a solution, until someone is hurt badly.

I've just cleared my work schedule for next Wednesday, so I will be at the board meeting. If anyone wants to question, or talk to me in person over anything on here, or about what happened at the last race, feel free to come up to me.

 

[Holeshot]

Alright, enough of this. We don't need to match IP's if someone admits such a violation.

Anyway, let's get back to the gridding issue that the thread is named for please. That will have a positive outcome hopefully, for much more than just you, me, Joe and Ernie.

I will comment on my experience with Barb: she's good at her job and that job does not seem an easy one. I've sat down at Start/ Finish for an appeal, etc and her command for the entire job overwhelmed me. That job is not near as easy as I'd thought it was before seeing her in action.

I used to think the same thing about Barb, about why can't the AFM get someone cheaper, closer, etc. However seeing her in action (well before I was on the board), I've gained a unique respect for what she does. In effect, Barb is the lynchpin that makes the entire weekend go on. It's the same as taking a top Chef from a restaruant and replacing them, expecting the same quality food and menu. That's a scarey proposition when you've got a decent crowd coming every night...and something I'm very familiar with.

Don't forget, we need to keep racing and to do so, we need an exeperienced race director. Barb is just that. The expense of flying her in every weekend is something that would be great to not have, but even worse would be a race director who cannot handle the job or worse, screws the entire race weekend process up. That possibility gives me reservations about finding "just anyone close".

 

[SVeta650S]

Alright, enough of this. We don't need to match IP's if someone admits such a violation.

Anyway, let's get back to the gridding issue that the thread is named for please. That will have a positive outcome hopefully, for much more than just you, me, Joe and Ernie.

I will comment on my experience with Barb: she's good at her job and that job does not seem an easy one. I've sat down at Start/ Finish for an appeal, etc and her command for the entire job overwhelmed me. That job is not near as easy as I'd thought it was before seeing her in action.

I used to think the same thing about Barb, about why can't the AFM get someone cheaper, closer, etc. However seeing her in action (well before I was on the board), I've gained a unique respect for what she does. In effect, Barb is the lynchpin that makes the entire weekend go on. It's the same as taking a top Chef from a restaruant and replacing them, expecting the same quality food and menu. That's a scarey proposition when you've got a decent crowd coming every night...and something I'm very familiar with.

Don't forget, we need to keep racing and to do so, we need an exeperienced race director. Barb is just that. The expense of flying her in every weekend is something that would be great to not have, but even worse would be a race director who cannot handle the job or worse, screws the entire race weekend process up. That possibility gives me reservations about finding "just anyone close".

No one said she is not good or that RD job is not challenging. But had anyone actually tried to find someone local and compair them? I udnerstand that it has been going on for years, and it's hard to believe that there is no one in the Bay Area who could take her place.

So, what happens is she decides tomorrow that she doesn't want to do the job anymore? Are we gonna stop racing at AFM because there is no one that good around?

 

[SVeta650S]

P.S. and if you go a few pages back, you will see that I already suggested for everyone who cares about this issue to show up at next Wednesday meeting, and for those who can't make it, to e-mail me their questions so we can address it all the next week's meeting. Jeff already asked to add grid stuffing item on the agenda earlier last week. So, we are actually doing something about it, belive it or not.

 

[afmotorsports]

Hmm, now I am actually curious if this "no videocameras" provision has any real legal basis, and is described anywhere in AFM by-laws or elsewhere. Or is it just one of those "we don't like being filmed" things that can not be enforced?

Hmmm... I thought this was an interesting question and I did a little research... and it's definitely not in the bylaws that you can't do that and the state of California specifically says "just push record"... and then "just push play": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEqiWMdAt8c

Relevant article appeared in the LA Times a few years back:

http://www.chore.us/051002 CA - Feel free to hit the 'record' button at board meetings.htm