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Another Bad Quarter for Harley Davidson
- Thread starter VicTim
- Start date
10PercentExtra
Member
It's a real shame. Harley is capable of high tech. And they know how to make products with a high level of quality.
Except they're stuck in their cruiser mold. They should have pivoted 5 years ago when the writing was on the wall that the old geezers who were their base were going to be dying off soon.
Now they're dying off and Harley doesn't have a pot to piss in.
That big twin engine isn't that heavy. I read it was 120lbs some place. If they went all in and didn't do a half-assed job like they did with Buell, they could build a tractor of an Adv bike with that M8 engine. Just need to do an ultra light frame, have as high of a level of fit and finish as they do on their cruisers, and have all the bells and whistles - which their cruisers already have - slipper clutches, cruise control, built in Nav.
Except they're stuck in their cruiser mold. They should have pivoted 5 years ago when the writing was on the wall that the old geezers who were their base were going to be dying off soon.
Now they're dying off and Harley doesn't have a pot to piss in.
That big twin engine isn't that heavy. I read it was 120lbs some place. If they went all in and didn't do a half-assed job like they did with Buell, they could build a tractor of an Adv bike with that M8 engine. Just need to do an ultra light frame, have as high of a level of fit and finish as they do on their cruisers, and have all the bells and whistles - which their cruisers already have - slipper clutches, cruise control, built in Nav.
augustiron
A firm member
^^120 lb engine maybe. but then you need a 75 pound trans and 40 pound clutch and primary....
VicTim
Well-known member
MoldTheClay
New member
I wonder if Harley will ever branch out of "cruisers" as their only product. Their modern bikes are without a doubt solid and well made. Now if they'd ever branch off of the goddamned v-twin and maybe make a standard with a triple in it...
Tim, when I go to Harley's website it's pretty clear they are a lifestyle business. They don't really sell bikes they sell a lifestyle. The problem with selling lifestyles is that they are dependent on fashion. And fashion can change very quickly. Harley's line up isn't really flexible enough to react quickly.
Another issue with Harley is they really don't provide an early entry into their lifestyle. The nearest thing that they have are the Street bikes. They have recently tried to add a bunch of learn how to ride programs, as has Triumph, but both companies are trying to suduce young/new riders with bikes that are just way too large to truly be considered good learner bikes.
On of the things Honda does very well is lock in their riders from a young age, and then keep them brand loyal for the entirety of their riding career. Harley can't do that with their selection of bikes. This makes them very vulnerable to the whims of fashion. A four or five percent change in a year could easily be explained by this without any economic factors being involved.
These days the age of the average ride is getting up there. I think the last stats I saw said over forty. I was told by a friend yesterday that for BMW the average age of a rider going to BMW was 56! This probably has everything to do with the new 300 they just came out with this year! Us old guys already have more than a few bikes in most cases. How much more garage space do we have for another one? It's limited. If these companies don't go after young/new riders there isn't going to be a market for motorcycles.
I don't know about you, but my entire life on a bike, even from when I was a little kid on my dad's bike, when you ride by kids they are fascinated by motos. I always wave to these tykes because I know how much fun it is to see motos ride by, and that's where the seed gets it start. Kids still love bikes. We just need a way that makes it easy for them to come join us as riders. This is why in the States we really need to bring in the entry level bikes, and encourage the domestic brands to build them too.
Another issue with Harley is they really don't provide an early entry into their lifestyle. The nearest thing that they have are the Street bikes. They have recently tried to add a bunch of learn how to ride programs, as has Triumph, but both companies are trying to suduce young/new riders with bikes that are just way too large to truly be considered good learner bikes.
On of the things Honda does very well is lock in their riders from a young age, and then keep them brand loyal for the entirety of their riding career. Harley can't do that with their selection of bikes. This makes them very vulnerable to the whims of fashion. A four or five percent change in a year could easily be explained by this without any economic factors being involved.
These days the age of the average ride is getting up there. I think the last stats I saw said over forty. I was told by a friend yesterday that for BMW the average age of a rider going to BMW was 56! This probably has everything to do with the new 300 they just came out with this year! Us old guys already have more than a few bikes in most cases. How much more garage space do we have for another one? It's limited. If these companies don't go after young/new riders there isn't going to be a market for motorcycles.
I don't know about you, but my entire life on a bike, even from when I was a little kid on my dad's bike, when you ride by kids they are fascinated by motos. I always wave to these tykes because I know how much fun it is to see motos ride by, and that's where the seed gets it start. Kids still love bikes. We just need a way that makes it easy for them to come join us as riders. This is why in the States we really need to bring in the entry level bikes, and encourage the domestic brands to build them too.
Which is so true. The Harley shop in SF has way more ties to the Gap than to a moto shop. lolz
Blankpage
alien
Maybe not reacting quickly to the latest fad is what's helped them sell that "lifestyle" for oven a hundred years.
When I was a kid they were selling motorcycles, not a lifestyle.
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alien
I'm guessing they still are. Wasn't my word, did you happen to notice the quotes.
aminalmutha
New member
Yep. Polaris is up because their market share is/was small to begin with and they've introduced some nice new models and a whole "new" brand (Indian). HD still craps out more bikes than most other brands put together. I chuckle at how BARF knows how to sell bikes better than HD does.
TheRobSJ
May lose 10mm sockets if distracted
This. There once was a time when GM had a massive amount of market share for all cars sold in America. And sure they've lost a lot over the years, but they still an awful lot of cars.
hophead
Active member
There's a surprise Tim is baggin on the baggers lol-the Harley's that is!
VicTim
Well-known member
There's a surprise Tim is baggin on the baggers lol-the Harley's that is!
I aint baggin I'm just the messenger.
Maddevill
KNGKAW
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Smart people are on that 928 lb Gold Wing, because it such a svelte little thing. I remember when a Gold Wing was an naked "Grand Tourer". The handling was questionable then. I can only imagine dragging knee on a 900 lb barge with pontoons out the sides.
You'd be surprised at how good the last 2 gen Goldthings handle. I've ridden with guys that knee dragged on them.
berth
Well-known member
Perhaps when you were a kid, but not any more.
Ever since Malcolm Forbes "came out", the company has been on the lifestyle bandwagon.
Drifting from Outlaw Bikers to RUBs posing down the block at the Starbucks.
The lifestyle took them over and they stopped innovating, they're primary technological achievement being to get their engine to stop leaking oil. Their bikes simply had to be pretty, loud, and powerful (note, I didn't say fast…). Turning, stopping, or any of those other "motorcyclist" things were secondary to the paint and grip tassels.
When a company tries to copyright an exhaust note, rather than patent an new engine or frame tech, you know what they're interested in.
T100
*Retired*
I't's been mentioned a couple of times now and I'm curious, just what is the Harley "life style" anyway? Does it relate to a certain type of riding costume and attitude, or what?
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T, obviously this isn't an easy question to answer. Still if you were to go down to the Wharf Store you'd get a really good feel for how the brand is now more about identifying with a lifestyle, than about the actual bikes.
All of the above. Go to the next Hollister Independence Rally 2017 - June 30 - July 3, 2017. It'll be crystal clear once you get there.
Marcoose
50-50
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Pirate outfit, loud pipes, loud stereo, bleeping/revving a lot, helmetless (in no helmet states)...
That said, what the HD life-style is for a certain demographic, so is the Gixxer life-style to another demographic. A lot that goes with motorcycling is life-style.