Bmw s1000xr

[kuksul08]

Yes.

Adventure bikes as a whole are almost always brought down by the fantasies of the owners rather than the practicalities of the owners. This is why I laugh when I see people talking about getting motorcycling to go "mainstream" in the US - we sell bikes based on fantasies of being a badass biker dude, charlie and ewan, rad ass racer dudez, stuntlyfe, etc.

The NC700 is a "mainstream" motorcycle. The BMW C1 is a mainstream motorcycle. Mainstream bikes are boring, practical affairs. Any bike that's sold on an image is inevitably going to contribute more to the exclusivity of bikes that the acceptance of bikes. Racer guys don't care about motorcycles, they care about sportbikes. Adventure guys don't care about actually riding a bike offroad, they care about the image. If they did, they'd be buying bikes that were actually functional offroad, which a 600 pound touring bike isn't. Just cause some folks can ride around the handicap doesn't actually make it a good offroad bike.

With that in mind, the entire category of "Adventure bikes" for normal riders should be bikes that have a pile of electronics to get you to work safely, 17 inch tires for the most modern, all weather rubber around, enough suspension travel to get you into and out of a pothole without drama (anyone seen that doozy developing in the leftmost lane on entrance to the baybridge from oakland?), strong enough brakes to stop you before you impact that taxi, enough power that you never care what gear you're in when someone starts to merge into you, bars that are high enough to miss most mirrors, a slim profile, etc.

The dream bike for me on the small displacement size is an SXV chassis with a Ninja 650 engine shoved in it. Would be around 330 pounds, but 65hp, twin that can easily handle freeway, massive brakes and loads of travel. Perfect city bomber.

The dream bike for larger displacement setups like that is the +4 inches of travel on a superduke mentioned above.

With all that in mind, the only reason adventure bikes don't resemble something like that is because they only get sold and are popular because they market an ideology rather than a bike. The BMW/KTM Adventure lines are great touring bikes, but that's inspite of their marketing and design compromises made to fit that marketing. Looking at the use cases that 95% of ADV riders have, they'd be a lot better off with better rubber, better electronics, better brakes, and suspension travel designed for street use, not "offroad?" use.

Hypermotard... 430lbs wet, 7.3 inches travel, 110hp. Close enough

But it's a far cry from the best all around bike. All that height gives you great cornering and ground clearance, but bad stability and most people can't stand over a 35"+ seat height comfortably.

 

[CurveSurfer]

If it's never going to be ridden offroad, it would be significantly better with 17s and bigger brakes.

17s might be significantly better on the track, but even on smooth public roads the 19" front tire gives up nothing in outright grip at any sane street pace. And on torn up broken goat trail tarmac the 19" is more comfortable.

I have a GS with a 19" front and a Multi + several other bikes with 17s and the front tire size on the GS has never been the deciding factor in street performance.

That said, I do ride my GS off-pavement on occasion, so I don't see the 19 (or the bike) as a fashion statement.

And the brakes on my GS as better than those on my Multi, even if the disc is 15mm smaller in diameter.

In any case, the good news is there are now lots of choices. The Multi and S1000XR have 17" fronts and big brakes and have no pretense of off road prowess. The GS and KTM Adventure have 19" or 21" fronts and are a little (or a lot) more sure-footed off road, and some find them more comfortable on bad pavement. All have longer travel suspension than the Superduke.

 

[Allroads]

17 vs 19

I can appreciate a streetbike with more suspension travel for real roads. The front wheel issue is just another compromise. 17 will provide more tire options and quicker turn in, everything else being equal. 19 will be more forgiving and has a greater angle of approach, at the expense of some nimbleness. The other thing is wheelbase. Longer will be smoother, shorter quicker. It seems like all bike designs have to give up something in order to gain something else. Picking your poison is the fun part.

 

[Ant]

The BMW has 17" wheels btw not 19", not sure what all the jibber jabber is about.

 

[Archimedes]

And it would be better if it was 200 pounds lighter and had access to normal street rubber in normal street rubber sizes. And had better brakes.

I've ridden just about every adventure bike on the market, and none of them have all of these:
Long travel suspension
Large displacement engine easily capable of freeway cruising
17 inch wheels in 3.5 front and 5.5 or 6 rear
top shelf brakes
Weight in range of 450 pounds or less
Upright, spacious seating position
TC
ABS

But you're dreaming expecting to get a bike with all those features at 450lbs wet.

As regards the new GS, I don't notice the weight at all once rolling, the bike is incredibly nimble. And it has radial brembos with ABS that work great, and ABS that in Enduro mode actually works awesome in the dirt. And the pedestrian OEM Anakee 3's on it have more grip that anyone needs on the street.

You can argue all day about spec sheets, but in the real world on the road in capable hands a bike like a GS will do everything and more than the road allows. To me motorcycling has nothing to do with spec sheets and everything to do with how the bike actually rides and performs. Which is why I always roll my eyes when people wax prophetic about bikes they've never even swung a leg over. Not directing that comment at you btw.

 

[ilikefood]

Hypermotard... 430lbs wet, 7.3 inches travel, 110hp. Close enough

But it's a far cry from the best all around bike. All that height gives you great cornering and ground clearance, but bad stability and most people can't stand over a 35"+ seat height comfortably.

It's more like 6.7" front, and 5.9" rear. Not really close enough.

 

[ilikefood]

But you're dreaming expecting to get a bike with all those features at 450lbs wet.

Why? The new VStrom is 500 lbs wet, and it's built to a budget, so it wouldn't be too difficult to make it lighter. Or throw a 10" suspension on the Hypermotard, and you're already there. There are already bikes that are about 450 lbs wet, they just come with really short suspensions for some reason.

 

[Z3n]

Yeah plus 4 inches front and rear on the superduke would do it. You could put adv forks/shock on the superduke but the problem is the swingarm hits the exhaust.

Oh and 150 mile range at least. We're riders, not posers here.

 

[iehawk]

Sorry if I wrote too long and no one read it, so here's the summary:

The S1000XR's suspension travel are 5.9in front and 5.5in rear.

500 lbs. wet for a bike is nothing, unless lap time is critical. It is to because of all the components that need to be there; the beefier frames to carry all the luggage for the travel, the additional gas.

When you complained about the range, suspension travel, being able to carry stuff and go, You have to realize how having them would add weight.

 

[Archimedes]

Why? The new VStrom is 500 lbs wet, and it's built to a budget, so it wouldn't be too difficult to make it lighter. Or throw a 10" suspension on the Hypermotard, and you're already there. There are already bikes that are about 450 lbs wet, they just come with really short suspensions for some reason.

Well... 500 lbs isn't 450 lbs, and if you read any compare involving the VStrom, it falls well short of the leading bikes in this class. Adding features, performance and durability to these bikes adds weight.

And if you think throwing a 10" suspension on a Hyper gets you the same performance, capability, versatility, comfort as a new GS, you definitely haven't ridden a GS. They're not even remotely comparable. And I've owned a Hyper.

 

[louemc]

17s might be significantly better on the track, but even on smooth public roads the 19" front tire gives up nothing in outright grip at any sane street pace. And on torn up broken goat trail tarmac the 19" is more comfortable.

I have a GS with a 19" front and a Multi + several other bikes with 17s and the front tire size on the GS has never been the deciding factor in street performance.

That said, I do ride my GS off-pavement on occasion, so I don't see the 19 (or the bike) as a fashion statement.

And the brakes on my GS as better than those on my Multi, even if the disc is 15mm smaller in diameter.

In any case, the good news are there now lots of choices. The Multi and S1000XR have 17" fronts and big brakes and have no pretense of off road prowess. The GS and KTM Adventure have 19" or 21" fronts and are a little (or a lot) more sure-footed off road, and some find them more comfortable on bad pavement. All have longer travel suspension than the Superduke.

Nice to read a post, That I am in such agreement with.

 

[Z3n]

Sorry if I wrote too long and no one read it, so here's the summary:

The S1000XR's suspension travel are 5.9in front and 5.5in rear.

500 lbs. wet for a bike is nothing, unless lap time is critical. It is to because of all the components that need to be there; the beefier frames to carry all the luggage for the travel, the additional gas.

When you complained about the range, suspension travel, being able to carry stuff and go, You have to realize how having them would add weight.

500lbs is quite a bit to pick up off it's side on a gravel road.

Nearly all bikes have a GVWR that will allow them to carry up to at least 450 pounds of weight, there's no need to significantly bulk up the frame or subframe to support that, unless you're doing long distance fully loaded 2 up riding and need to carry the kitchen sink with you. I don't really consider gas weight to be a big deal, and there are plenty of aftermarket tank options out there that are reasonably priced, as light or lighter than the stock components, and carry significantly more gas than stock. Unfortunately, they're generally not very pretty, so they don't make it on most stock bikes.

The superduke has about the same suspension travel and it's better than riding a supersport but still nothing compared to a supermoto or dual sport.

Seriously, I wouldn't think this would be a crazy ask - a 1290 supermoto. Build it around the same frame as the 1290, but longer travel suspension and dirtbike style plastic design. 4.5 gallons of gas capacity is fine as the 1290 engine gets around 35-55mpg, keep the weight reasonable, and you've checked every box.

Well... 500 lbs isn't 450 lbs, and if you read any compare involving the VStrom, it falls well short of the leading bikes in this class. Adding features, performance and durability to these bikes adds weight.

And if you think throwing a 10" suspension on a Hyper gets you the same performance, capability, versatility, comfort as a new GS, you definitely haven't ridden a GS. They're not even remotely comparable. And I've owned a Hyper.

I think that you'd be 100 pounds lighter, capability is in the eyes of the rider, versatility is in the eyes of the rider, and comfort is in the eyes of the rider. I've ridden most variants of the GS minus the new watercooled one and they're surprisingly good for what they are and if you don't compare them to anything else , they're awesome bikes. But in the larger market? Meh.

I guess the brilliant thing about GS marketing is that it's made everyone think if they buy the bike it's automatically great at everything cause ADVENTURE.

 

[planegray]

.................I guess the brilliant thing about GS marketing is that it's made everyone think if they buy the bike it's automatically great at everything cause ADVENTURE.

may as well hate on Nutella and all the people who eat it, for becoming so "mainstream" :horror


Don't worry, when I get mine I'll be sure to get a sticker that says; "another asshole on a GS"

 

[Archimedes]

I think that you'd be 100 pounds lighter, capability is in the eyes of the rider, versatility is in the eyes of the rider, and comfort is in the eyes of the rider.

In the eyes of most riders in the marketplace looking for a highly versatile bike, including the capability for comfortable, capable long range touring, there would be no comparison between those two bikes.

BTW, my LC GS would kill my Hyper everywhere. There isn't a single thing my Hyper would do better than the GS.

 

[Z3n]

may as well hate on Nutella and all the people who it it, for becoming so "mainstream" :horror


Don't worry, when I get mine I'll be sure to get a sticker that says; "another asshole on a GS"

You'll know when you've found my superduke once my custom plate shows up.

In the eyes of most riders in the marketplace looking for a highly versatile bike, including the capability for comfortable, capable long range touring, there would be no comparison between those two bikes.

BTW, my LC GS would kill my Hyper everywhere. There isn't a single thing my Hyper would do better than the GS.

I have yet to find a bike with a full windshield that I find comfortable. Head buffeting is far worse than a naked bike which lets you lean into the windblast.

 

[Junkie]

In the eyes of most riders in the marketplace looking for a highly versatile bike, including the capability for comfortable, capable long range touring, there would be no comparison between those two bikes.

BTW, my LC GS would kill my Hyper everywhere. There isn't a single thing my Hyper would do better than the GS.

The weight difference doesn't matter when riding fast on goat trails?

I agree with Z3n regarding what an ideal streetbike would be, though.

 

[ilikefood]

In the eyes of most riders in the marketplace looking for a highly versatile bike, including the capability for comfortable, capable long range touring, there would be no comparison between those two bikes.

BTW, my LC GS would kill my Hyper everywhere. There isn't a single thing my Hyper would do better than the GS.

Hmm maybe the Hypermotard just sucks, but I'd bet that I can split lanes in city traffic much easier and much more comfortably on my DRZ-SM than you could on your GS. Light weight, narrowness, and maneuverability make a big difference in traffic.

 

[LectricBill]

I have yet to find a bike with a full windshield that I find comfortable. Head buffeting is far worse than a naked bike which lets you lean into the windblast.

That's been my experience too, with a couple of exceptions:

The Parabellum Scout on my BMW R1200R made it into a fine machine for longer trips with no buffeting. I also like that I could switch to a 10" screen for summer use via 4 screws and about 10 minutes.

Currently on a Brammo Empulse R, I running a MRA Type: WNB KBA 37960, Made in Germany, that has a spoiler built on the top portion of the screen. Very smooth air just below my helmet. Works well.

(Sorry for the thread hijack, but I'm born to wander!)

 

[Z3n]

The problem is that it's all so individual to the body shape/helmet, it's hard to find anything that will work across a broad range of riders. In theory, aerodynamic design is great, in reality, it sort of breaks down when you're not the rider shape they planned for.

 

[CurveSurfer]

Seriously, I wouldn't think this would be a crazy ask - a 1290 supermoto. Build it around the same frame as the 1290, but longer travel suspension and dirtbike style plastic design. 4.5 gallons of gas capacity is fine as the 1290 engine gets around 35-55mpg, keep the weight reasonable, and you've checked every box.

Putting other differences aside, I think everyone would agree a 1290 SM would be an awesome bike. I had a 950SM and it was the most fun I bike I ever owned. Didn't love touring on it, and 17" street rubber isn't great on dirt, so it's a compromise bike too....but if fun is your priority a big bore KTM SM is the ticket.

Let's hope KTM comes through, following up the 950/990 SM/SMT with a 1290 model.