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Body position

A few things that really led to big breakthroughs (even though they may seem like small details) in my body positioning and overall riding proficiency in the twisties.

1: Open your hips fully; this is the position you should be in when hanging off. Your hips should point to the inside of the turn. I used to not fully open my hips, I'd just extend the inside knee, which can sometimes point your hips in the wrong direction when hanging off (crossed up).

2: Try resting your outside elbow or forearm on the edge of the gas tank when hanging off. I found that for my bikes ergonomics this put my upper torso (and head) in the perfect position and gave me a guideline so I could hang off at consistent amounts every turn.

3: If you think you're hanging off like Ben "Eblow" Spies or Josh Herrin, you're not. Get your head even lower and your butt even further off the seat. Pics at the track are a great way to diagnose this type of problem.

Before and After
 

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I love it when it when people reference riders from years past. :rofl Before Kenny Roberts era racers weren't putting their knees on the ground on purpose. Bikes, tires, riders have all evolved and the fastest riders in the world all look pretty similar on the bike. There are certainly differences between riders but they all have the same goal with body position. Keep the bike as upright as possible for the given corner/conditions. It's a difficult position for a lot of people and doesn't come natural for them.

Rider size, strength, type of bike all have an effect on it as well. I think the most common comment is what Ernie said, kiss the mirror, but that doesn't work well of the lower body is working in concert with the upper body. Lately I'm finding that if I can get the rider to use the correct foot/leg/butt position, the upper body/head can rotate to the inside of the corner more naturally. I think that if you can keep the hips in the correct position and rotate the shoulders into the corner then the head can more easily turn and look through the corner. After that it's mostly getting more comfortable and fine tuning it.
 
Lazerus said:
I have to remind myself every time I ride to relax my inner arm :) Usually multiple times per lap!

Riverside is especially hard to keep the inside arm relaxed because you are (should be) at positive throttle the whole time. It gets awkward to keep good throttle control the further your wrist gets cocked.

I don't drag hard parts in riverside on the sv though. What kind of times are you doing there?
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without traffic, i usually can run 1:59s pretty consistently. i think im losing the most time in turn 1 and the Bus Stop. hopefully next time with a new rear tire i will be closer to 1:55.

i wish i could be accelerating through Riverside the entire time. i usually enter pretty fast, feel the limit of my lean angle and stay neutral throttle for a tiny bit, then accelerate to my entry pt for Lost Hill. i got a bit more ground clearance when i reduced my rear sag, but that sacrificed a bit elsewhere on the track. cant wait for my next trackday out there.
 
There's a roll off about 3/4 through Riverside to allow for a direction change (to get to the exit apex). Perhaps you're entering too fast?
 
To clarify; middle of your butt on the outer edge of the seat. obviously I meant if it is a left turn you should be on the left portion of the seat, right hand turn right portion of the seat.
 
ZXR400SP said:
Rider size, strength, type of bike all have an effect on it as well. I think the most common comment is what Ernie said, kiss the mirror, but that doesn't work well of the lower body is working in concert with the upper body. Lately I'm finding that if I can get the rider to use the correct foot/leg/butt position, the upper body/head can rotate to the inside of the corner more naturally. I think that if you can keep the hips in the correct position and rotate the shoulders into the corner then the head can more easily turn and look through the corner. After that it's mostly getting more comfortable and fine tuning it.
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That's a good observation. Body position starts way before you enter the corner.
 
stangmx13 said:
without traffic, i usually can run 1:59s pretty consistently. i think im losing the most time in turn 1 and the Bus Stop. hopefully next time with a new rear tire i will be closer to 1:55...
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Disregard everything I said, you're faster than me :)
 
LOL Rory, I will be borrowing an SV for the weekend. :teeth When you lap me, I'm gonna show you my "crossed up body positioning" :twofinger :laughing
 
These are some good points. I will be working with Dan Sewell this Friday's Z2 Track Day on body positioning. Long overdue.
 
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One thing that always made me look faster in pictures was learning how to turn my head sideways to keep in line with my torso, rather than trying to keep my head upright. Decided to try it after watching Yuki Takahashi wildcard in 250GP's at Motegi.

dave
 
Off topic but Ken Hill has stated several times to me there is never a moment where you need to weight the outside peg, always the inside peg, was a game changer for me.



stangmx13 said:
i think your definitions of "inside" and "outside" are backwards.... theres plenty of room to argue on this one, but this makes more sense to me:
Focus on getting your butt slid to the inside of the seat, put weight on your outside foot and drop your head as you exit the turn.

funny, the faster i go the less i worry about body position in relation to lean angle. ill scrape knee, toes, and bodywork in a long fast corner and think "i better hang off farther next time." so i do, and guess wat... still scrape knee, toes, and bodywork the same amount.
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Shawnery said:
Off topic but Ken Hill has stated several times to me there is never a moment where you need to weight the outside peg, always the inside peg, was a game changer for me.
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Hmm...that's interesting. Can you elaborate on the reasoning behind this? Seems to me that the outside leg, with its heel firmly locked in place on the peg and the knee anchored against the tank, has better leverage. Also seems like quite a few of the motogp guys are very, very late at times to bring that inside foot back up onto the peg, past halfway to the apex, so late in fact that it makes me wonder how much weight they're ultimately placing on that peg. And I think I've read somewhere how Schwantz or someone would weight the outside peg as they fed the power on.

I'm not really arguing one side or the other here (obviously I'm not in any position to argue with pretty much anything KH might say about technique), I'm just curious what the rationale was behind it, and why exactly it was a "game changer" for you. It's something I've been thinking about myself recently.
 
DonJigweed said:
Hmm...that's interesting. Can you elaborate on the reasoning behind this? Seems to me that the outside leg, with its heel firmly locked in place on the peg and the knee anchored against the tank, has better leverage. Also seems like quite a few of the motogp guys are very, very late at times to bring that inside foot back up onto the peg, past halfway to the apex, so late in fact that it makes me wonder how much weight they're ultimately placing on that peg. And I think I've read somewhere how Schwantz or someone would weight the outside peg as they fed the power on.

I'm not really arguing one side or the other here (obviously I'm not in any position to argue with pretty much anything KH might say about technique), I'm just curious what the rationale was behind it, and why exactly it was a "game changer" for you. It's something I've been thinking about myself recently.
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Me too. Please share.
 
I have noticed with myself and another rider who I was trying to help out that our positioning was a result of the geometry that we had been running on 2 different bikes..Both cases the each of us had to much weight on the front(forks pushed up in the triple) making it almost instinct to position ourselves in a manner similiar to your picture on your profile. After changes to ride height, positioning changed dramatically. This also (in my case) allowed me to relax my arms more and it didnt seem as strenuous steering the bike over the course of a session..Before i made the change it seemed as though i was always struggling with keeping tucked midcorner..After the change it seemed easier to keep my body lower while turning with the bike and not on top of it..just my own personal experience..
 
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