-
There has been a recent cluster of spammers accessing BARFer accounts and posting spam. To safeguard your account, please consider changing your password. It would be even better to take the additional step of enabling 2 Factor Authentication (2FA) on your BARF account. Read more here.
Building AR15
- Thread starter ABC
- Start date
Ratters
Is it summer yet?
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2004
- Location
- The Cordelia Junction
- Moto(s)
- '00.5 RSV Mille, '00 SV650 trackbike
- Name
- Maynard
Or just dont be a cheap ass and order a set of roll pin punches
You are going to be building more anyways, you just dont know yet.....
Have two sets. Never use them cause the channel locks work so much better.
NorCalAthlete
O_o
While I can appreciate the durability of newer ARs, I've seen that video before and with the exception of the explosive test I have issues with every other test they did.
1. Dirt test - The dirt they covered it with is nowhere near as fine grained as the "moon dust" crap in the middle east that gets all over everything and in every nook and cranny.
2. Water test - Anyone in a combat zone who falls into a canal or has a vehicle rollover into a river isn't going to have time to tape their barrel. At best, they'll be able to rack a new round and drain the water and hope there's no silt clogging the end.
3. Shotgun test - They shot it with birdshot. I'd like to see how it does against buckshot. Or ricochets/glancing shots from a 7.62x39, which is what it's most likely to get hit by.
4. Vehicle test - A Jeep Wrangler weighs about 3500 lbs. An up-armored Humvee weighs upwards of 12,000 lbs or more depending on armor kit and crew loadout. MRAPs weigh even more. I've seen M4s run over by lesser kitted up-armored Humvees and it bent the rifle into a slight banana shape and completely crumpled the rails. To be fair, there ARE plenty of Jeep Wrangler-equivalent civilian vehicles driving around in Iraq/Afghanistan, but...still.
5. Explosives test - This is the one test I feel they actually did really well. It simulates a soldier walking along and getting hit with an IED that may not kill him or her, but IEDs are sometimes accompanied by small arms fire where the soldier would need to return fire immediately after getting hit. There's some videos on YouTube and LiveLeak of that exact scenario happening.
6. Drop tests - Well, first of all, you're dropping it onto grass and dirt...as opposed to hard rocks and concrete. Secondly, you just blew it up. The force of the explosion is far more than a 100 ft drop from a helicopter onto grass.
All in all, an effective marketing video, buuuuuuuuut...that's all it is.
I counter with HK's 416 video...which shows similar testing to the water test from Daniel Defense, but improved.
[youtube]AGwkHktkTxU[/youtube]
Last edited:
Arminius
Well-known member
I was only trying to counter argument that AR15s are fragile by design.
NorCalAthlete
O_o
I know
sorry my post wasn't a gripe at you it was more of a gripe at DD. The DD carbine was a direct impingement design while the 416 is a piston rifle. Both videos show improvements over the M16A1/A2 variants. But to call it a "torture test" and say it's what the rifle would go through in combat is misleading in my opinion. Whereas the HK video actually shows what a SEAL would be doing with the rifle after coming out of the water, and during the test they don't bother taping the barrel or rechambering like DD did.
}Dragon{
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ ︵ ╯(°□° ╯)
NorCalAthlete
O_o
Damn skippy! It's big boy Legos! (I swear Legos have got to be the greatest toy ever. Seriously, if you can understand a Lego set, you can understand ANYTHING.)
corndog67
Pissant Squid
You mean.......there are other things to obsess on than motorcycles?
Who'd a thunk it?
Who'd a thunk it?
RRR70
Attack Helicopter
Watch the hammer spring, I put one together by reading a guide on the internet and put it in backwards
would get pop, pop, click. Clear jam, pop, pop, click WTF
It also may cause trigger pin to walk out. 
Gabe
COVID-fefe
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2002
- Location
- Where's Cleveland Heights?
- Moto(s)
- FZ-07 farkled-by-Amazon Edition
- Name
- Gabe
- BARF perks
- AMA #: 1006675
Not saying they're fragile--I saw them fall off trucks and off roofs and get run over and after you found the handguards and put them back on they would work fine. And every infantryman knows to invert their rifle and clear it after immersing it in water.
What I saw is that if you kept if lubed it would attract dust and jam, and if you kept it dry it would jam. It always surprised me that it came from the same era as the F-15 and Apollo project. The Garand/M14 seem like such reliable weapons systems, the M-16 series should be the pinnacle of rifle technology--accurate (check), durable (not too bad), easy to use (mostly, although it can be a bitch to clean), and most importantly, at least as reliable and easy to clean as an AK-47, which is a 70-year old design.
Given the resources of the US DoD and our vast military-industrial complex, which has spent trillions and trillions of dollars, our infantry should have a perfect (not near perfect, PERFECT!) weapon system, especially after 45 years of development! That's longer than the M1903 was in general service...
Arminius
Well-known member
Aren't there dry lubricants available for guns? Also, I'll take the accuracy, long range and ability to cary more ammo over the AK47.
Gabe
COVID-fefe
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2002
- Location
- Where's Cleveland Heights?
- Moto(s)
- FZ-07 farkled-by-Amazon Edition
- Name
- Gabe
- BARF perks
- AMA #: 1006675
From what I know, long range and accuracy beyond 300 meters or so don't really seem to matter--maybe some of our other combat veteran friends can add perspective?
RRR70
Attack Helicopter
Weren't you a Marine?
RRR70
Attack Helicopter
I have both. I'll take AR for long distance accuracy and AK for CQB knockdown power. Even though we were shooting AKs (47 and 74) at 400-450 meters in the Army.
Arminius
Well-known member
I haven't shot an AK that was even accurate at 100m but I'm sure there are ones out there that are. The debate between the AK and AR will never be settled just like debate between Yamaha and Honda or Ford and Chevy never will be. It comes down to one's preference and needs. FWIW, I think the 6.8 SPC outperforms the AK in every category.
Mr.Furious
illest of the land
Have two sets. Never use them cause the channel locks work so much better.
I prefer the punches
Channel locks do kick ass for a lot of things though.
Mr.Furious
illest of the land
Define accurate? I mean lets not get crazy now, but most AK's should be reasonably accurate at 100m.
RRR70
Attack Helicopter
When it comes to AK we not talking about MOA, we talking about MOM- minute of man. As I said, I've shot AKs at 400-450 meters at man sized target. It is absolutely doable and much more destructive than 5.56mm.
6.8SPS outperforms both, AR and AK. I'm looking at and thinking about 300 AAC round. Ammo is expensive right now.
Arminius
Well-known member
Your question is a subjective one so I will answer it subjectively:
I wouldn't consider the AK47 for a hunting rifle for anything beyond 75 yards but I would consider an M4 a good choice for anything out to at least 200 yds. However, wartime is not the same as the sport of hunting. Just being able to lay lead on a man size target is probably "good enough" but IMO it's nice to have that option of a precision shot should one find themselves in that situation. The AR is also lighter and you can carry more rounds...both a plus in MY book.