buttonwilow crash video

Lazerus said:
Def shouldn't be blaming the rider in front though, not classy.
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Yeah, and looks like OP had a change of heart. He edited his video description- now he more objectively describes the situation instead of calling the rider a prick for crashing him out.
 
Sometimes it just takes time for things to sink in. Its always easy to judge from the outside. Things that look slow on video are always faster in reality when you're not expecting it.
 
Lazerus said:
If you say so. At the time the passing rider committed to pass, that was the biggest "hole".

I straightline into there ala Ken Hill personally.
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You would not believe how many holes I've passed up during trackdays just because it was a trackday. Even if this was a race, most of us would have realized the closing distance was huge and that the risky pass attempt could be an easy pass if we hold off for about 2-3 seconds.
 
Lazerus said:
Just a track incident imho. Passing rider predicted one line from rider in front, recieved the complete opposite and was left with nowhere to go.
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Rider in front was on the proper line going into turn 2. Guy with the camera had no business trying to pass in that spot IMO.
 
NOS-Nelson said:
Rider in front was on the proper line going into turn 2. Guy with the camera had no business trying to pass in that spot IMO.
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If it's possible to straight line it through the first corner into the upcoming corner, wouldn't the proper line be to go straight since it's the fastest and most direct?

And the bike in front seemed to have an swung left pretty hard for a right hand turn when the guy behind was able to enter in a straight line. Seems like front rider might of screwed up his line and shot too far to the right then swung over left hard to correct. From the back it might of appeared to be an intentional hole left for a pass. Though it would make more sense to yield on a straight. Guess we just won't know for sure with just a short clip.
 
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KooLaid said:
If it's possible to straight line it through the first corner into the upcoming corner, wouldn't the proper line be to go straight since it's the fastest and most direct?
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For the black bike to be in the spot he was meant he came out of turn 1 too slow. Most people are on the edge of the track like the white bike was and they aim for that small rumble strip where he got taken out.
 
KooLaid said:
If it's possible to straight line it through the first corner into the upcoming corner, wouldn't the proper line be to go straight since it's the fastest and most direct?
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nope. there are 2 distinct lines through turn 2. both have their pluses and minuses, mostly because of how the riders feels about 2 slipper patches right when u should get on the gas. the line the rider in front took allows u to drive inside the patches, holding a tighter line (makes for fun passes up the inside during a race). the line the rider behind took forces u to cross the patches on the brakes and drive outside the patches, a line which can be very dirty. which one you take depends on the strengths of the rider and/or their bike.

really, passing into 2 is more dangerous than passing out of 2 or into 3. a little patience during a trackday could have saved quite a bit of trouble.
 
No that would not be me.

However I do know for fact that rider 2 was NOT going for a pass. He is definitely a well skilled rider and overall a pretty great guy. He dipped out from a group ride mid way to help me try to locate a new rider friend of mine who got pretty lost out in the middle of no where.

As for the unfortunate fellow who was taken away unconscious, he is currently recovering from the accident.
 
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KooLaid said:
No that would not be me.

However I do know for fact that rider 2 was NOT going for a pass. He is definitely a well skilled rider and overall a pretty great guy. He dipped out from a group ride mid way to help me try to locate a new rider friend of mine who got pretty lost out in the middle of no where.

As for the unfortunate fellow who was taken away unconscious, he is currently recovering from the accident.
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If the rider wasn't going for the pass then they sure as hell had a lapse mentally.
 
This is a very disappointing accident, because it could have been easily avoided. Track days are full of strangers riding at varying speeds. When coming up behind slower riders, it is always best to observe their movement carefully and to make a plan before attempting to pass. Ken Hill recently posted a video of himself lapping around Thunder Hill which illustrates this principle beautifully.

In this case, the passer continued on his preferred line even though it was not clear how the rider in front would take the turn. Perhaps he didn't expect that rider to use the whole track or to enter the turn so slowly. Such expectations highlight the missing piece: the plan. Before arriving at the entrance to the turn, the passer should have been able to make a decision about whether or not he was going to attempt a pass. If he decided to make the pass, then this video shows that he should exercise more patience and caution. If he decided NOT to make the pass, then he would not have any reason to be so close to the other rider during entry into the turn. The third case is that he did not make any decision at all. That is what I believe to be the cause of this incident, and I believe that is what he should fix for the future. One cannot always rely on visual assessment alone. There must be a decision involved.

edit: here's that video from Ken Hill I mentioned earlier (linked to specific times)

http://youtu.be/oWH2AJALQBg?t=1m11s
http://youtu.be/oWH2AJALQBg?t=2m34s
http://youtu.be/oWH2AJALQBg?t=6m16s
 
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I have yet to do a track day, but when I do, I don't think I will ever try to pass someone in a corner. These are not racers, so you cannot trust that they will keep a particular line in any corner. Much safer to keep passes to the straights.

BUT, if you ARE going to pass in corners, it's up to the person doing the passing to ensure that the pass is done safely. Meaning, if the guy you are passing suddenly tightens his line, it's up to the person passing to make sure theytake the proper measures to avoid contact.
 
DaveT319 said:
I have yet to do a track day, but when I do, I don't think I will ever try to pass someone in a corner. These are not racers, so you cannot trust that they will keep a particular line in any corner. Much safer to keep passes to the straights.
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See how long that lasts once you actually get on track.

Passing is part of being on the track. Sometimes, shit happens.
 
Lazerus said:
^better bring a literbike
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Pretty much. When you do track days you often run into guys who go really fast on the straights and really slow in the turns. Especially in B and C groups, but I've noticed it in A group as well.
 
Kurosaki said:
See how long that lasts once you actually get on track.

Passing is part of being on the track. Sometimes, shit happens.
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Passing mid corner does not have to be part of the track day experience. I've done almost 50 trackdays over the last 20 years, in the A and B groups and I've never had to pass anyone mid corner. If you're really faster than the guy you're overtaking, you don't need to stuff him late at the apex like that. You either make the pass earlier on the brakes or you get him on exit. The type of incident on video is unfortunately more common than it should be. Doesn't make it right. A little patience and common sense goes a long way toward not ruining both riders days.
 
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