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Bye Bye Capitalism

Understand that...but if I short sell a stock without owning ANY shares, and now I am compensated for my loss...I am getting what I am calling 'hard currency'. Guess I answered my own question...the bailout is going to the short sellers and bubble investors that got caught with no collateral....so I guess funny money moves around in ledgers and nothing goes to the economy. :dunno

no, the bailout is not helping short sellers or bubble investors. The current plan will have the Fed takeover toxic waste at discounted prices. Nobody is getting rich off this, at least not to my knowledge, I am sure some will. It is a bailout in the sense that the banks are under capitalized and can not borrow money so credit is tight. The point of the bailout is to free up credit, and the dems are holding the line apparently about guarantees and oversight.
 
Just found on teh interwebs:

Dear American:

I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude.

I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 800 billion dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you.

I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you may know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation movement in the 1990s. This transactin is 100% safe.

This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check. We need the funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds in the names of our close friends because we are constantly under surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a reliable and trustworthy person who will act as a next of kin so the funds can be transferred.

Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren to wallstreetbailout@treasury.gov so that we may transfer your commission for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond with detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect the funds.

Yours Faithfully Minister of Treasury Paulson
 
Office of Financial Stability - I SHIT YOU NOT!!! Hello 1984.....



"The 44-page Senate proposal, pulled together by Senator Christopher J. Dodd, Democrat of Connecticut and the chairman of the banking committee, would require the Treasury to run the rescue plan through a new "Office of Financial Stability..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/23/business/23paulson.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin....

September 23, 2008
Stocks Fall as Rescue Plan Is Negotiated
By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN

This article was reported by David M. Herszenhorn, Stephen Labaton and Mark Landler, and written by Mr. Herszenhorn.

WASHINGTON — Senate and House Democratic leaders said on Monday that they had reached an agreement on their conditions for approving a $700 billion rescue plan for the financial system, including more oversight of the program and a requirement that the government do more to help troubled borrowers refinance their mortgages.

But even as Congressional Democrats and the administration began to narrow their differences, Democrats are bracing for a battle over efforts to limit the pay of executives whose firms seek help and over whether to grant bankruptcy judges authority to modify the mortgages of borrowers in danger of foreclosure.

Investors were skeptical. Concerns that the bailout plan may not move smoothly through Congress contributed to the anxiety in the markets that pushed the Dow Jones industrial average down more than 372 points and pushed crude oil up more than $16 a barrel.

President Bush on Monday morning urged legislators to resist the temptation to add provisions that, he said, “would undermine the effectiveness of the plan.” Still, Treasury officials indicated a willingness to negotiate.

Within hours, Representative Barney Frank, Democrat of Massachusetts and chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, said he had reached a general agreement with the Treasury Department over mortgage aid and Congressional oversight.

But Mr. Bush may find that members of his own party are among the holdouts. Some conservative Republicans criticized the plan, raising the stakes for Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr., who has been trying to persuade lawmakers and an increasingly frustrated American public that the rescue package was needed.

Newt Gingrich, the former House speaker, said he expected Republican lawmakers to oppose the plan in increasing numbers. “I think this is going to be a much bigger fight than he expected,” Mr. Gingrich said, referring to President Bush, who called again for swift action on Monday morning. “I think this bill is a long way from done,” Mr. Gingrich added.

Republican leaders who support the administration’s plan warned Democrats on Monday to exercise restraint and not slow the bailout package, even as they prepared for an aggressive internal campaign to rally Republican support.

“When there’s a fire in your kitchen threatening to burn down your home, you don’t want someone stopping the firefighters on the way and demanding they hand out smoke detectors first or lecturing you about the hazards of keeping paint in the basement,” Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader, said in a speech on the Senate floor. “You want them to put out the fire before it burns down your home and everything you’ve saved for your whole life.”

Mr. McConnell added: “The same is true of our current economic situation. We know that there is a serious threat to our economy, and we know that we must take action to try and head off a serious blow to Main Street.”

The Senate Democrats’ proposals includes two bold provisions. One would grant the Treasury "contingent shares" of stock in any financial institution that wants to sell bad debt to the government; the other would grant bankruptcy judges the authority to modify the terms of primary mortgages, a step aimed at helping homeowners at risk of foreclosure.

The bankruptcy provision is staunchly opposed by the banking, lending and securities industries and by many Republicans in Congress, but Democrats insist that it is one of the few mechanisms to provide direct assistance to homeowners caught in the foreclosure crisis.

The contingent shares would give taxpayers an equity stake in companies seeking help through the rescue program, potentially allowing the government not only to recoup however much of the $700 billion it spends on bad debt, but also to profit should the financial firms prosper in years ahead. The legislation would require the value of the contingent shares to equal the value of the assets purchased by the government.

The 44-page Senate proposal, pulled together by Senator Christopher J. Dodd, Democrat of Connecticut and the chairman of the banking committee, would require the Treasury to run the rescue plan through a new "Office of Financial Stability" to be headed by an assistant treasury secretary. It would also establish an "Emergency Oversight Board" to monitor the bailout effort, made up of the Fed Chairman; the chairman of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation; the chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission; and two non-government employees with "financial expertise" in the public and private sectors, one each appointed by the majority and minority leadership in Congress.

In addition, the Senate proposal would require monthly reports to Congress, rather than the biannual reports that would be required under the Bush administration’s proposal.

Amid continuing concerns over the deep global ramifications of the crisis, the finance ministers and central bank governors of the Group of Seven major industrial nations said on Monday that they were maintaining “heightened close cooperation.” In a joint statement, they pledged to take “whatever actions may be necessary, individually and collectively, to ensure the stability of the international financial system.”

The ministers and governors welcomed the “extraordinary” actions proposed by American officials to take illiquid assets off bank balance sheets, Reuters reported. But the statement made no other mention of any specific steps to be taken by the group’s member nations.

The Bush administration’s proposal could prove to be the largest government bailout of private industry in the nation’s history. It calls for nearly unfettered powers for the Treasury secretary in managing the bailout.

Though the jittery state of the financial markets put pressure on officials and legislators to move quickly, some lawmakers said they did not want to be rushed into approving extraordinary new powers for the Treasury secretary and the government without full consideration of the consequences.

Both presidential nominees, who face the prospect of inheriting an enormous program, said there had to be more oversight of the Treasury Department than the Bush administration had proposed.

Financial companies were already lobbying to broaden the plan. And the Bush administration did indeed widen the scope by allowing the government to buy out assets other than mortgage-related securities as well as making foreign companies eligible for government assistance.

Banks and traders also braced themselves for another tumultuous week in the markets. But early signs indicate that investors in Asia were reacting positively to the developments in Washington. Meanwhile, top Democrats and Republicans on Capitol Hill said on Sunday that they would act swiftly on the administration’s request, but not without setting their own conditions.

“We will not simply hand over a $700 billion blank check to Wall Street and hope for a better outcome,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said.

Top administration officials and senior lawmakers said that the markets could be devastated if Congress and the administration failed to reach agreement on the plan.

Mr. Paulson said he hoped that the government would recoup much of the cost of buying distressed mortgage-related assets. But he did not rule out that the initial cost of the bailout could rise beyond $700 billion, the limit set in the terse proposal sent by the Treasury to Congress on Saturday.

“That doesn’t mean we’ll go all the way there, or it doesn’t mean it will stop there and we won’t ask for more,” Mr. Paulson said Sunday on the CBS program, “Face the Nation.” “What we need is something that is big enough to get the job done. We’ll ask for what we think is a right amount to give us plenty of flexibility.”

David Stout, Carl Hulse and Brian Knowlton contributed reporting.
 
I still like my name better: Federal Asset Resolution Trust. :x
 
Gold? :hand it's all about diamonds baby, diamonds! :cool If I'm going to convert my currency I don't want to lug around bricks! :laughing

Remember those airline stocks that were shorted on 9/11? I wonder who was shorting these big Wall street companies.
 
so let me get some stuff straight...

the "people" run the gov... the gov is in charge of the most important things such as the military, tres. , dmv, law enfor., airport security, immigration. whats wrong with trusting the people "we" elected into office to over see the banking industry that screwed millions of people??

in theory it would be beautiful, but so would a communist dictatorship
 
no, the bailout is not helping short sellers or bubble investors. The current plan will have the Fed takeover toxic waste at discounted prices. Nobody is getting rich off this, at least not to my knowledge, I am sure some will. It is a bailout in the sense that the banks are under capitalized and can not borrow money so credit is tight. The point of the bailout is to free up credit, and the dems are holding the line apparently about guarantees and oversight.


The whole idea is that right now there is a huge spread between what the market would pay for the toxic assets and what the crooked bastards are holding out for from the Taxpayer. Where Buffet might offer $0.05, we shall bend over with a smile for $0.60.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/sto...4967E-258D-4650-BE95-2203FCA64AAA}&dist=msr_1

Economists said there was a central problem to the Paulson plan. Most of
the toxic waste in question does have some price, but it has been too
low for the financial institution holding them to accept. So the
government buyout would only work if taxpayers overpay for the assets.
 
Thanks Zanshin. Exactly on target. A "Bailout" creates a price floor...but of course, that's really the intent as well.
 
We are shopping for crappy houses to buy and then rent! :)

When the economy hands you lemons throw them in the garbage and mix up some koolaid. :p
 
I'd shop for good houses to buy and then rent...but that's just me.
 
This bailout makes perfect sense. Picture yourself a congressman, senator or president... doesn't matter republican or democrat..same shit different flavor. How did you get elected? Money... BIG MONEY donations.

We all know where these donations came from. The people who ran up the biggest credit/commodity/housing bubble in history... and now they are in trouble. Sure they still have the millions they made (some cases billions) so they are not in danger of going hungry or losing their mansions. Danger is their bubble machine is imploding and they are in danger of not being able to donate millions to politicians to put them or keep them in power.

So what do we do? Bail them out of course! Send them hundreds of billions!

But what about the investment banks? We can't justify bailing them out can we? I know! We will turn them into real banks overnight and save them too! Brilliant!

So what if they spend those billions running up other bubbles again like commodity's and screw the little guys some more. Got to keep the magic bubble machine going. Or who knows who might get elected into office without big money donations.

If they let housing prices and commodity's prices collapse to true value, little people may afford to buy stuff again and live good lives spurring the true economy on. We don't want that! We want them slaving, just getting by, while the rich stay in power and get richer,

Same as it has always been... Makes perfect sense!

Only problem is the government buying bad mortgage's for too much and keeping prices higher longer will slowly choke off the economy with debt. At some point the slow down will raise unemployment until we have a depression anyways. But who cares... the people in power can party on. We will worry about that later.
 
Just found on teh interwebs:

Dear American:

I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude.

I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 800 billion dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you.

I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you may know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation movement in the 1990s. This transactin is 100% safe.

This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check. We need the funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds in the names of our close friends because we are constantly under surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a reliable and trustworthy person who will act as a next of kin so the funds can be transferred.

Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren to wallstreetbailout@treasury.gov so that we may transfer your commission for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond with detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect the funds.

Yours Faithfully Minister of Treasury Paulson

:rofl
 
This bailout makes perfect sense. Picture yourself a congressman, senator or president... doesn't matter republican or democrat..same shit different flavor. How did you get elected? Money... BIG MONEY donations.

..............................Same as it has always been... Makes perfect sense!

Only problem is the government buying bad mortgage's for too much and keeping prices higher longer will slowly choke off the economy with debt. At some point the slow down will raise unemployment until we have a depression anyways. But who cares... the people in power can party on. We will worry about that later.

DAMN IT Frank, they're doing it for your own GOOD ! LIKE IT !!
 
Oh how I long for the days when bankers jumped out windows when the markets crashed.
 
My mom went to school with a girl whose dad jumped out the window in 1929 :laughing

If the fucks who have driven the US economy into the ground had any conscience they would too.
 
My mom went to school with a girl whose dad jumped out the window in 1929 :laughing

If the fucks who have driven the US economy into the ground had any conscience they would too.

I've always considered that Seppuku is a wonderful practice that should be adopted by Western institutions.
 
I'd shop for good houses to buy and then rent...but that's just me.


In our area not very many people can afford the rent on a good house. That is why they were taking on fluff loans so they can afford the payments on a nice house. :(

Oh there is also grant money available to fix up the houses in the downtown core! Most are 1930's to 1950's houses. Well built but in need of some refurbishing.
 
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