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Can We ALL Stop Using Money?

It isn't? I have to have money to buy groceries because I can't grow my own food. I can't even legally plant a seed anywhere to grow my own food.

sorry I meant in an abstract sense. like, human beings can survive without it.

in our society, yes, it is absoluetly required. you cannot exist without it, your job as a human is to consume and feed the machine. its fuckimg a crime to be homeless, and you cant just walk over to a forest and try to live.

our entire society is built around your job of making money

but there are humans in this world who survove within a system of no money. they are very rare, but places in south america, east central and west africa, and papua new guinea have humansd who live within systems of zero money
 
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What if we all went to a 20 hour work week? lol

It's going to happen in our lifetime. It might even happen in the next 20 years. The interesting thing will be what people do with their free time. I think most people are just going to do the drink/TV/video games routine.
 
It's going to happen in our lifetime. It might even happen in the next 20 years. The interesting thing will be what people do with their free time. I think most people are just going to do the drink/TV/video games routine.

I don't think do, IMO

Humans actually work MORE now, than they did before. The trend is to actually spend more time working, not less
 
It's going to happen in our lifetime. It might even happen in the next 20 years. The interesting thing will be what people do with their free time. I think most people are just going to do the drink/TV/video games routine.

Why do you think it will happen in our lifetime?
 
It's going to happen in our lifetime. It might even happen in the next 20 years. The interesting thing will be what people do with their free time. I think most people are just going to do the drink/TV/video games routine.

Yeah, no. I think just the opposite trend is happening. Except for the rich, people are, on average, making less and less relative to the purchasing power of the money they are receiving. Working more than 40 hours, I believe, is much more common than less. Those who work less or job share usually have special circumstances. In other words, it's a secondary income to the primary bread winner.
 
Yeah, no. I think just the opposite trend is happening. Except for the rich, people are, on average, making less and less relative to the purchasing power of the money they are receiving. Working more than 40 hours, I believe, is much more common than less. Those who work less or job share usually have special circumstances. In other words, it's a secondary income to the primary bread winner.



Yep. Families now require two incomes and the Internet and connectivity means more people deal with work at home in off hours

France actually has a law to be voted on making it illegal to answer work emails outside of work
 
Yep. Families now require two incomes and the Internet and connectivity means more people deal with work at home in off hours

France actually has a law to be voted on making it illegal to answer work emails outside of work

I like that. From what I hear, France and other European country's workers get a lot more vacation time than we do in the US too.
 
What if we all went to a 20 hour work week? lol

It's going to happen in our lifetime. It might even happen in the next 20 years. The interesting thing will be what people do with their free time. I think most people are just going to do the drink/TV/video games routine.

How is that going to work? There aren't enough people who do what I do to fit things into a 40 hour work week.
 
I don't see us working more, I see us consuming less, and therefore requiring less money.

If I had not been laid off in the recession I surely would have a new car by now. But as it turns out, I have 300K miles on my shitty little car that I couldnt afford to replace and now it sits more than it is driven. I haven't washed it in at least a year, inside or out.

Now I'm questioning its existence particularly when I get a registration bill from the DMV that says it needs to be smogged.

I used to make alot more money than I do now, but I find I still have more than I need.
 
this is just so telling, because I know you really believe this...
What is it telling you?
Money is not necessary for human survival....
sorry I meant in an abstract sense. like, human beings can survive without it...
The abstract is an interesting idea but when your family needs food, the guy at the supermarket takes cash and credit cards...you better have some.
 
It's a complicated argument, but basically our society is moving towards a structurally unstable configuration, and the easiest long-term way to fix the problem is guaranteed income (welfare) and reduced hours per worker. It sort of works like this:

1. rich people get and stay rich by being able to sell goods and services to large amounts of normal people
2. normal people need adequate income to create these markets
3. right now, job/wage growth is insufficient to grow these markets
4. automation will continue to amplify point 3
5. automation will enlarge the amount of goods/services that can be sold
6. points 3-5 create overcapacity, inequality and deflation. Hence, the current inability of the Fed to create inflation, and the record low labor participation rate in society.
7. Like a chronic disease, the symptoms of points 3-5 will be managed until at some point, things fall apart. Remember, the closest thing we have to a captain of the economy is the Fed, and they are not omnipotent in their abilities or foresight.
8. Initial treatment will involve guaranteed income, perhaps some kind of EITC on steroids
9. It will eventually become clear that it makes no sense to have 50% of your labor pool idle, and the ones still working resentful as hell about all the freeloaders. So long term treatment involves policy that encourages the majority of people to reduce their hours so one job becomes two jobs, etc.

Freddo how that plays out in specific industries with actual labor shortages, I'm not sure. Maybe you get to live in a slightly bigger house, slightly higher up the hill, because you're special.
 
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The abstract is an interesting idea but when your family needs food, the guy at the supermarket takes cash and credit cards...you better have some.

agreed. our current society makes it nearly impossible to exist without money. of that we have no disagreement
 
agreed. our current society makes it nearly impossible to exist without money. of that we have no disagreement

Kevin, you can "live off the grid" in a "cabin in the woods" (or a van down by the river) but at that point you are not contributing much to society, except in an artistic/low impact sort of way. Or on the other hand you can invest money into businesses, contribute to the needy, pay taxes, and buy goods that help keep families working and prospering. Wouldn't be cool if many more people gave money to worthy causes like Bill Gates does? It takes money to do that. We don't want to roll back the clock until we are living a subsistence lifestyle. At that point everybody is hurting. It's better when more of the people can prosper.
 
It's a complicated argument, but basically our society is moving towards a structurally unstable configuration, ...

Only if you believe the pie is not expandable. The pie can be doubled into two or more pies. People invent new things and create markets where there were no markets, that creates new jobs and more demand for products. People do better. Their labor is more valued. The economy grows. Life is good....
 
The question falls apart, with the "can we all" part.

I see very large segments of society, engaged in totally different ways of living.

That supports a total spectrum of commerce and infrastructure.
 
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