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Can We ALL Stop Using Money?

radvas said:
How can money be the root of all evil if mankind has survived longer without an official currency than with one? Unless you are contending that evil didn't appear until money did, it's a bit of a paradoxical setup, no?
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LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Not money itself.:afm199

Let's get that quote correct.:twofinger
 
Money is just a measurement tool. Been used for many thousands of years in one form or another. Most of history I believe.:party

Not inherently bad.:wtf
 
russ69 said:
Kevin, you can "live off the grid" in a "cabin in the woods" (or a van down by the river) but at that point you are not contributing much to society, except in an artistic/low impact sort of way. Or on the other hand you can invest money into businesses, contribute to the needy, pay taxes, and buy goods that help keep families working and prospering. Wouldn't be cool if many more people gave money to worthy causes like Bill Gates does? It takes money to do that. We don't want to roll back the clock until we are living a subsistence lifestyle. At that point everybody is hurting. It's better when more of the people can prosper.
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On what land could you grow your own food? On what land could you keep animals and livestock? How would you build this cabin, And it would be illegal to do so without permits.

If this was your land, that you somehow didn't pay for, who pays the property taxes? If you lived in a van, it needs to be legally insured and registered.


Every single capitalistic society, every single democracy, is built on a slave class foundation. The USA just outsourced that in the modern era, and hides it from you.

Your (our) prospering is utterly predicated on the suffering of others. You think the Sheridan way of life is based in freedom? It's based on massive control and enslavement of people's elsewhere.
 
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russ69 said:
Only if you believe the pie is not expandable. The pie can be doubled into two or more pies. People invent new things and create markets where there were no markets, that creates new jobs and more demand for products. People do better. Their labor is more valued. The economy grows. Life is good....
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and yet...


mike23w said:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/sep/29/earth-lost-50-wildlife-in-40-years-wwf

Summary:
  • The number of wild animals on Earth has halved in the past 40 years, according to a new analysis.
  • Marine animal populations have also fallen by 40% overall, with turtles suffering in particular.
  • The biggest declines in animal numbers have been seen in low-income, developing nations, while conservation efforts in rich nations have seen small improvements overall.
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theres very little evidence that our current system is able to adapt to lowering resources when all it has done is accelerate the use of the resources. what you expound is nothing more than pure religious-like faith in a market/system that has done nothing to support that faith
 
kevin 714 said:
...Every single capitalistic society, every single democracy, is built on a slave class foundation.
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Oh stop. I worked for a wage, my choice. Are we enslaved...no.
kevin 714 said:
Your (our) prospering is utterly predicated on the suffering of others...
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Yeah, I suffered, I had to work. Oh the humanity of it all. What a crock. Is it at all possible, in your world, that people work and are happy? And that both the employee and the employer both prosper? Is that possible?
 
russ69 said:
Oh stop. I worked for a wage, my choice. Are we enslaved...no.
Yeah, I suffered, I had to work. Oh the humanity of it all. What a crock. Is it at all possible, in your world, that people work and are happy? And that both the employee and the employer both prosper? Is that possible?
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I never said WE are enslaved. I specifically said we outsourced that slave foundation.

here, life is pretty good. I never said in any of those posts WE are ensdlaved. though I did notice you totally ignored all the points I made about "living in a cabin"

I also never said work was bad. work is good, very good. work can and does make a greta many people happy and is good for people. I have never been, and would never be, a proponent of zero work.

Im not sure if you are purposefully or unintentionally obtuse. Our country most assuredly has a slave labor class, its just not IN our country. youre attempting to say I make points I never made
 
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kevin 714 said:
If this was your land, that you somehow didn't pay for, who pays the property taxes?
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God damned property tax, so un-American. There is no way to be left alone and that is really sad to me.
 
JakesKTM said:
What would life be like without money? Mankind has survived longer historically without an official currency system than with one.

If money is the root of all evil or is driving resource depletion, then how do we get off this rollercoaster and get beck on the ground?

I've been researching this answer lately and it seems like many people feel that money is the problem, but do not have the answer to abolishing it.

I'm starting this discussion as a moderator not facilitator. If there is no interest in this topic then maybe this isnt the place. But there are many minds here whom are very capable of presenting some real ideas and possible solutions.

So please contribute. I will start with this but in no way reflects my actual beliefs, just want to discuss.
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Barter economies result in gross wealth inequality worse than the fiat currency policy we are currently operating under. This concept is wildly ignorant of macroeconomics.
 
russ69 said:
Only if you believe the pie is not expandable. The pie can be doubled into two or more pies. People invent new things and create markets where there were no markets, that creates new jobs and more demand for products. People do better. Their labor is more valued. The economy grows. Life is good....
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Right, completely correct. But the new markets need to require large amounts of low to medium skill human labor to create this cycle that you speak of. Otherwise, the wealth accumulates to the owners of the means of production, and the rich just get more rich while no one else can afford to buy the new wonders that this industry is producing.

That's where we've had a major problem in recent years. For example, if you look at computer software, you have a product that not only tends to automate work in other industries (ergo, destroys jobs), but the very nature of software itself (write once, then infinitely reproducible) tends to create capital accumulation in the hands of a relatively small group of people.

There may very well be a future new industry that creates a new Henry Ford dynamic; I just don't see any signs of that, right now. Most innovations involve the application of highly skilled labor producing product that obsoletes middle to low skill labor. For example, what happens when uber is married with self driving cars, and we don't need cab drivers anymore? Where do these guys go apply their lower-end skills and earn money, if every industry is mostly following the same trend? Do we train all of them to become scientists and engineers? Are most of them even capable of being scientists and engineers?
 
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JakesKTM said:
What would life be like without money? Mankind has survived longer historically without an official currency system than with one.

If money is the root of all evil or is driving resource depletion, then how do we get off this rollercoaster and get beck on the ground?

I've been researching this answer lately and it seems like many people feel that money is the problem, but do not have the answer to abolishing it.

I'm starting this discussion as a moderator not facilitator. If there is no interest in this topic then maybe this isnt the place. But there are many minds here whom are very capable of presenting some real ideas and possible solutions.

So please contribute. I will start with this but in no way reflects my actual beliefs, just want to discuss.
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Didnt read entire thread.


The concept is plausible. But in todays society, no way.

In todays world, excess is desired. Bill gates, donald trump, etc.... these people will never use the total of their money, but, they continue to work, to make more money. I have 3 flatscreens in my house, yet i desire another one.

Money isnt the root of evil.... greed and jealousy/envy are. We as a human race, are too greedy nowadays. We want more than the next guy. We want more than we NEED.
 
Money is merely a means of exchange for goods and services. Money is not even necessary to obtain goods and services, since we created this false wealth called credit and lending. All goods and services in the industrialized world are based directly, or indirectly on oil. My grandpa used to say that money makes the world go round, but money doesn't really make the world go round, oil does.

Money isn't the problem. Our heavy reliance on a single finite resource is the problem. Oil is merely millions of years stored solar energy. It is not replaceable on a scale that makes a difference to humans. There is no known energy source, current technology, or combination thereof that can scale up to replace our heavy reliance on oil. Money is not the problem. Our reliance on oil is the problem. As oil goes, so goes humans, unless we are collectively smart enough and strategic enough to save ourselves.
 
^^^Which is why it's all wonderfully self correcting. :)
 
byke said:
^^^Which is why it's all wonderfully self correcting. :)
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Well, sure, one way or another it will all eventually self correct. I don't know about you, but I'm sure not looking forward to the way that involves a mass die off. :|
 
Economic freedom is the key to prosperity.

Free and fair deployment of capital is simply the means.
 
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