Cell phone in hand ticket

[LongGoneJohn]

Required to be removable and can't be used at night. So standard window tint as we think of it is still against the vehicle code.

Cell phone has to be hands-free, but court rulings have said it's the act of talking on the phone with it in your hand that's illegal (because of how the law is written). So you can legally change your music or check your GPS as long as it doesn't get into wanton disregard for the safety of others.

They said that about a specific code that a specific cop wrote.

There is a second code that says using the phone for any kind of data usage is illegal.

The cop in the case law you are citing wrote the "talking" vehicle code for someone who was using the data portion of the phone.

So, no, you can't text and drive or edit your GPS and drive or check your e-mail and drive or MMS and drive or read BARF and drive. A cop also can't cite you for the talking-section of the vehicle code and have it stick in court. I think dialing, and perhaps as you said even adjusting your music is fine.

 

[m0t0_ryder]

How are these laws gonna work with the smart watches?

 

[enki]

so, only people who are driving are potentially dangerous?

Well, you do have a point...all tinting should probably be outlawed...Probably isnt because of a political compromise. That can and will likely change the next time an officer is shot at from a rear seat. So enjoy your little tint while ya can.

 

[Butch]

You can always pay the fine associated with the tint instead of correcting it and paying for the fix-it fee. It'll probably be like $200 but you can leave the tint on........ and risk getting another ticket.

I have heard a second "fix it" on the same offense is a moving violation, ie, a point and an opportunity for your insurance company to raise your rates.

 

[Lionel Cosgrove]

I have heard a second "fix it" on the same offense is a moving violation, ie, a point and an opportunity for your insurance company to raise your rates.

not true

 

[NorCalBusa]

Well, you do have a point...all tinting should probably be outlawed...Probably isnt because of a political compromise. That can and will likely change the next time an officer is shot at from a rear seat. So enjoy your little tint while ya can.

I disagree with restricting tint.

There are plenty of other states that allow all the tinting one wants- I've not heard of an epidemic (or even trivial higher rate) of police getting shot from the back seat...

 

[chief145]

They said that about a specific code that a specific cop wrote.

There is a second code that says using the phone for any kind of data usage is illegal.

The cop in the case law you are citing wrote the "talking" vehicle code for someone who was using the data portion of the phone.

So, no, you can't text and drive or edit your GPS and drive or check your e-mail and drive or MMS and drive or read BARF and drive. A cop also can't cite you for the talking-section of the vehicle code and have it stick in court. I think dialing, and perhaps as you said even adjusting your music is fine.

I believe you are mistaken. Can you please cite the specific law about "data"
I can't seem to find it anywhere

 

[fourtogo]

So I got a cell phone in hand ticket. I never had my cell phone in my hand. Moto cop came up on me, pulled me over and said he saw my cell phone in my hand. I have tinted windows in the cage and sun block tint on my windshield. I said I didn't have my cell phone on me; it was in the middle compartment getting charged. Then I asked him which hand he saw me holding it with, he wouldn't say. His reply was "not going to play this game with you".

I also got a fix it ticket for my front windows being tinted despite the tint being the lightest shade. I said but this is the lightest shade available and I pointed to several cars passing by with much darker tint. I really don't want to have this tint removed.

What are my chances of winning the first and/or second ticket written off?

I learned a in court lesson . Went before the judge with some thing close to your issue. Bla bla judge . his responce . Mr. Fourtogo I have never seen you before . And officer so and so is in here all the time . And I find the officer very credible. Pay yor fine or go before a jury>>in my court Doh!! I was told i was making illegal left turn. Motor cop pulls me over asked my why i think I am being stopped . Ah make a left officer?, I told him if look on the ground you will see faded left turn lines. Hops on his scooter rides back and watch's light change a few times . Comes back and ask me again same question, his reply this time . I pulled you over because of your sunglasses have side flaps . So good luck in court

 

[Lionel Cosgrove]

Required to be removable and can't be used at night. So standard window tint as we think of it is still against the vehicle code.

Cell phone has to be hands-free, but court rulings have said it's the act of talking on the phone with it in your hand that's illegal (because of how the law is written). So you can legally change your music or check your GPS as long as it doesn't get into wanton disregard for the safety of others.

wrong

They said that about a specific code that a specific cop wrote.

There is a second code that says using the phone for any kind of data usage is illegal.

The cop in the case law you are citing wrote the "talking" vehicle code for someone who was using the data portion of the phone.

So, no, you can't text and drive or edit your GPS and drive or check your e-mail and drive or MMS and drive or read BARF and drive. A cop also can't cite you for the talking-section of the vehicle code and have it stick in court. I think dialing, and perhaps as you said even adjusting your music is fine.

right, partially (you can't adjust your music on a cell unless its hands free)

I believe you are mistaken. Can you please cite the specific law about "data"
I can't seem to find it anywhere

23123.5 cvc

 

[chief145]

23123.5. (a) A person shall not drive a motor vehicle while using an electronic wireless communications device to write, send, or read a text-based communication, unless the electronic wireless communications device is specifically designed and configured to allow voiceoperated and hands-free operation to dictate, send, or listen to a text-based communication, and it is used in that manner while driving.


(b) As used in this section "write, send, or read a text-based communication" means using an electronic wireless communications device to manually communicate with any person using a text-based communication, including, but not limited to, communications referred to as a text message, instant message, or electronic mail.


I don't see anything about music or GPS only communication with another party via text, instant messaging or e-mail. That is the only information I have. As far as I knew as of February 2014 you could use GPS or music on your phone.

 

[Junkie]

They said that about a specific code that a specific cop wrote.

There is a second code that says using the phone for any kind of data usage is illegal.

The cop in the case law you are citing wrote the "talking" vehicle code for someone who was using the data portion of the phone.

So, no, you can't text and drive or edit your GPS and drive or check your e-mail and drive or MMS and drive or read BARF and drive. A cop also can't cite you for the talking-section of the vehicle code and have it stick in court. I think dialing, and perhaps as you said even adjusting your music is fine.

Can I play with my old GPS that is just a GPS, no phone capability?

How are these laws gonna work with the smart watches?

I don't think the laws specify phone, pretty sure they just say device or something like that.

not true

I remember one of the LEOs here saying that, once you get one ticket for it (and presumably a reasonable amount of time to fix it, not on the way home), you could be arrested for failing to obey a police officer... or something like that at least. I thought it was even a misdemeanor. I could be remembering wrong though.

 

[Lionel Cosgrove]

23123.5. (a) A person shall not drive a motor vehicle while using an electronic wireless communications device to write, send, or read a text-based communication, unless the electronic wireless communications device is specifically designed and configured to allow voiceoperated and hands-free operation to dictate, send, or listen to a text-based communication, and it is used in that manner while driving.


(b) As used in this section "write, send, or read a text-based communication" means using an electronic wireless communications device to manually communicate with any person using a text-based communication, including, but not limited to, communications referred to as a text message, instant message, or electronic mail.


I don't see anything about music or GPS only communication with another party via text, instant messaging or e-mail. That is the only information I have. As far as I knew as of February 2014 you could use GPS or music on your phone.

"text based communication.....not limited to"

gps is text based. music is text based. get it?

 

[Lionel Cosgrove]

I remember one of the LEOs here saying that, once you get one ticket for it (and presumably a reasonable amount of time to fix it, not on the way home), you could be arrested for failing to obey a police officer... or something like that at least. I thought it was even a misdemeanor. I could be remembering wrong though.

no thats incorrect. if you don't correct the violation, you pay a very hefty fine and thats it. and you risk getting the same ticket in the future.

 

[chief145]

"text based communication.....not limited to"

gps is text based. music is text based. get it?

http://blogs.findlaw.com/california...tinkering-while-driving-allowed-by-court.html

Not saying that it is impossible to get a ticket, I just believe you are referencing the wrong CVC

 

[Lionel Cosgrove]

http://blogs.findlaw.com/california...tinkering-while-driving-allowed-by-court.html

Not saying that it is impossible to get a ticket, I just believe you are referencing the wrong CVC

Ahhhh the irony. The citing officer in the spriggs case used the wrong CVC. If he would have used the one I referenced earlier, it would have held up. Also, the attorney who wrote that article is flat out wrong. I've written dozens of cell phone cites for gps under the text section, all of which resulted in guilty rulings. And many of those defendants cited spriggs in court to no avail.

 

[chief145]

While I don't necessarily agree with your interpretation of the law, it is fairly new and has had quite a few evolutions since it was first introduced. I would expect things to change a few more times. Grabbing a phone to pick a new song is no worse than touch screen stereos that can sort through your iPod. It will be interesting to see how things pan out.

 

[LongGoneJohn]

I believe you are mistaken. Can you please cite the specific law about "data"
I can't seem to find it anywhere

I am not mistaken.
CVC 23123.5
http://law.onecle.com/california/vehicle/23123.5.html

The "data" law is not new. It was introduced the same time the talking portion of the law was introduced. The bottom line, as Lionel stated, was the cop wrote the wrong section and it got tossed. I frankly don't understand why it made such a big splash, because had he written 23123.5 -- which I have written hundreds of times -- it would have held up. Well, it could have held up.

You can disagree with the "interpretation" all day long, but it's written in the vehicle code exactly what "data" means. 23123 means you can't talk on your phone with it in your hand. 23123.5 means you can't use any means of data on your phone while it's in your hand. Simple as that.

Laws are not written based on "what is no worse than." In fact, the cell phone law itself is silly. Studies show the act of TALKING, not necessarily holding the phone, is far more dangerous than the quick typing of a phone number in your phone -- which is legal by the way. However, that's of course, not how our wonderful legislators write laws. They write laws based on emotion and public outcry, not logic.

"The law isn't logical, it just is."

 

[Junkie]

Does a GPS (not a phone with GPS) count as a wireless communication device? The law specifies communicating "with any person" which a GPS satellite isn't.

Could the officer cite you for VC2800(a) if he told you to correct the window tint and you didn't? I think that's what I remember seeing.

 

[LongGoneJohn]

Does a GPS (not a phone with GPS) count as a wireless communication device? The law specifies communicating "with any person" which a GPS satellite isn't.

Could the officer cite you for VC2800(a) if he told you to correct the window tint and you didn't? I think that's what I remember seeing.

I don't think so.

There are specific GPS laws, as to the location of the GPS device in your windshield and stuff -- so I believe it is separate.

The intent of the cellphone laws was to inhibit the use of, you guessed it, cell phones.

 

[chief145]

I am not mistaken.
CVC 23123.5
http://law.onecle.com/california/vehicle/23123.5.html

The "data" law is not new. It was introduced the same time the talking portion of the law was introduced. The bottom line, as Lionel stated, was the cop wrote the wrong section and it got tossed. I frankly don't understand why it made such a big splash, because had he written 23123.5 -- which I have written hundreds of times -- it would have held up. Well, it could have held up.

You can disagree with the "interpretation" all day long, but it's written in the vehicle code exactly what "data" means. 23123 means you can't talk on your phone with it in your hand. 23123.5 means you can't use any means of data on your phone while it's in your hand. Simple as that.

."

It really doesn't matter what the vehicle code considers data as it does not mention data once in 23123.5
It also specifies in part (b) that the section applies to manually communicating with another person