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Cleveland shooting

greggargubby said:
I assume FTO means Field Training Officer..? If so, doesn't he or she have some authority in such a situation? I realize we can parse this shit out until the end of time and none of it means anything, but it looked to me like the officer in the passenger seat incurred the most risk and this happened because of the officer driving.
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Yes, FTO = Field Training Officer. Yeah, the FTO is in charge of his recruit officer, but you only have so much control from the passenger seat. Again, I'm just thinking out loud here. We don't know if this was a training situation, and we don't know who was driving (at least not that I'm aware of). Even if it wasn't a training car, I'd be willing to bet that it was the rookie officer driving, because that was a pretty dumb ass rookie move to pull up so close like that. The officer in the passenger seat was totally exposed and it very well probably contributed to the situation going down so quickly. I'd be pissed if I was the passenger officer.

As we discussed in the police state thread, apparently the dispatcher did not pass on to the officers that the caller thought the gun may or may not have been fake. It is possible that the dispatchers were just receiving the info as the officers were arriving on scene, and on the radio themselves, so maybe the dispatcher didn't have a chance to broadcast that. It could be that the dispatcher dropped the ball. I'm not so sure it would have made a difference in the end, but if the dispatcher dropped the ball, there is no excuse for that. Information should not be withheld from the responding officers intentionally.

As far as I can tell with the grainy video, it looked to me like a very unfortunate, but legally justified shooting.
 
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of course it was legally justified. pretty much anything the cops do is, and if they really told the kid to 'put his hands up three times' then he must have been moonlighting as an auctioneer.
 
I thought the Santa Rosa cop wasn't in the wrong partly because he gave the kid 10 seconds to put it down.

But this kid is much younger and only 2 seconds elapsed.
 
1. Video is compressed and only shows frames. More than 2 seconds.
2. Video, while grainy, clearly shows him bending forward and reaching towards waistband with one hand while pulling up shirt.
3. Video clearly shows aggressive behavior, stalking person on sidewalk, pointing gun at others.
4. Gun recovered looks very real to me. If I hadn't already been told it was airsoft I would have figured it for real.

Video:
http://www.abc15.com/news/national/...eillance-video-of-shooting-of-12-year-old-boy

Gun recovered:
cleveland-police-officer-shoots-12-year-old-boy-04600e4e02eb25eb.jpg


Maybe pulled up so close because he was just sitting and they didn't want to risk him running away with the gun across the park? Figured close the distance quickly while in the minimal protection of the car? Who knows until statements are released. Looks like a good shoot to me.
 
JakesKTM said:
Video is of poor quality. Dispatcher very clearly dropped the ball on this. Police pulled up so close to the kid they gave themselves no safety barrier or time to asses. The shoot was very fast I don't like it at all. Kid got the BB gun from another kid at the youth center.

I have a very hard time accepting these recurring shootings by police of kids with toy guns. In each scenario the consistent pattern is police go in hot weapons drawn and shoot within seconds not really engaging investigative but reacting.

The officer has the ability to slow the situation down
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As a police officer, you don't know if a person has a BB gun or not. You can't risk your life assuming the other person is holding a replica especially when the dispatch is telling you it is a real gun. Unfortunately this kid had a replica that didn't have the usual orange cap at the muzzle. These replicas look exactly like a real weapon.

A person pointing his gun in a public space can quickly escalate into a public shooting situation. It is a tough call to make. Do you stand far away and monitor the situation (with potential for many fatalities) or do you go right at the alleged gun man.

I wish the kid had just raised his hands or dropped to the ground instead of going into his waistband. I am sure he was trying to show the officers that it was a replica. Kids don't think through. Sadly he died for it.

Sad event any way you look at it.

I admire the 12 year old's family's statement:
"We understand that some of you are hurt, angry and sad about our loss. But let's use those emotions in a way that will contribute to positive efforts and solutions that bring change to Cleveland, Northeast Ohio and cities across the nation as it relates to how law enforcement officials interact with citizens of color."
 
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SpeedyCorky said:
on one hand, how dumb you gotta be to be walking around with a gun like object, waving and pointing it around totally in the open in a park??!
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I mean wasn't the kid 12 years old? An average small child of that age has nowhere near the mental capacity to comprehend the consequences of his actions, even grave ones such as this.

Cops rolling in and the first they do is shoot, when the kid is 12, is completely wrong imo. When was the last time a cop got shot at by a child? I can't even think of any instances of this every making the news in recent history
 
dont get me wrong, it was WAY more the cop's fault than the kids, and way more the parents fault than the kids - however at the ripe old age of about 12, my friends and i had access to his dad's guns. we would sometimes shoot the smaller arms in his basement, where no one could see, or really hear us. we never, and damn do i mean NEVER even considered bringing the guns outside the basement, muchless off the property, muchless to a public park, muchless be dumbass enough to wave it around in a public park. there was some piss poor parenting involved with this kid who got shot - thats for god damn sure. and who lets their kid just hang out at the park alone? in the snow?
 
One more tragedy. Wish the cop had slowed down a bit, wish the kid had not been playing with a replica gun. What the fuck. It's like a train wreck, you can see it happening but can't do anything to stop it.
 
when i was a kid, we used to get into water pistol fights at the park every other day. some of them looked fairly realistic.

none of us ever got shot by a cop.
 
NorCalAthlete said:
1. Video is compressed and only shows frames. More than 2 seconds.
2. Video, while grainy, clearly shows him bending forward and reaching towards waistband with one hand while pulling up shirt.
3. Video clearly shows aggressive behavior, stalking person on sidewalk, pointing gun at others.
4. Gun recovered looks very real to me. If I hadn't already been told it was airsoft I would have figured it for real.

Video:
http://www.abc15.com/news/national/...eillance-video-of-shooting-of-12-year-old-boy

Gun recovered:
cleveland-police-officer-shoots-12-year-old-boy-04600e4e02eb25eb.jpg


Maybe pulled up so close because he was just sitting and they didn't want to risk him running away with the gun across the park? Figured close the distance quickly while in the minimal protection of the car? Who knows until statements are released. Looks like a good shoot to me.
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1. Yea, video is time lapsed. Many businesses utilize this type of video recording. From time officers pulled up, to actual shoot, right around 2second. Gaurantee it. Video records every other frame to maximize recording space. No fuckin way the officer told him shit 3 times before shooting.

2. Absolutely. Horrible, tragic mistake on the kids part reaching into his waistband. But lets be real here.... that kid panicked and was tryin to take it out to show the officers it was fake. He was doing it to clear the situation, not escalate it.

3. Not sure what video youre talkin about. The only one ive seen shows no such "aggressive" behavior. Hes sitting at a park bench, solo, gets up n walks about 10ft, no gun in hand, cop car pulls up, kids dead. Please link this aggressive behavior youre talkin about.

4. Absolutely. Gun looks real as fuck.


Im torn on this one. Yes, the kid did reach in his waistband, where im assuming the gun was. Horrible mistake n idea on the kids part. However, is that all thats needed nowadays? Jus reach for your waistband n expect shots fired?? I realise the officers were responding to a gun call n not a fuckin jaywalkin call, but damn, still seems a little rushed.
 
The rookie is the first one out of the car, FTO was the driver, and the kid reached toward his waistband after being shot according to the news article.
 
shoot first, ask questions later, officer safety is paramount, the lives of others is secondary.
 
fawndog said:
The rookie is the first one out of the car, FTO was the driver, and the kid reached toward his waistband after being shot according to the news article.
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If second part is true, about reaching in waistband AFTER bein shot, then yea, fuck this chump ass cop.
 
wazzuFreddo said:
shoot first, ask questions later, officer safety is paramount, the lives of others is secondary.
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and that's what truly pisses me off about the 'cop as victim/scared' business.

it's kinda like kids that sign up for military service to take advantage of the education/benefits and then wind up horrified when they actually have to go to war.

you signed up for a dangerous job as a cop. that's why you get the good pay. that's why you get the pension and benefits. that's why you get the respect. you might get killed on the job. it was your decision.
 
The National Rifle Association -- Not! said:
This tragedy could've been avoided if the kid was exercising his 2nd Amendment rights and carrying a real automatic assault weapon. Make that 2 weapons.
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:troy

While truly tragic and real bad parenting to give/let a child hold a (replica) gun anywhere, this trigger-happy society isn't good for anyone.
 
asthmodeus said:
when i was a kid, we used to get into water pistol fights at the park every other day. some of them looked fairly realistic.

none of us ever got shot by a cop.
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Yes, we did when I was a kid. When I was a kid 12 year olds gang members weren't carrying pistols and shooting people with them.
 
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