Concealed Weapons Permit in CA?

[Asphaultnaut]

I applied in SF a while back. Their answer? "We do not have a policy on CCW, therefore, fuck off peasant". Which is bullshit, since it was known that dipshit Hennessy did issue permits. CGF send them a nice letter and policy appeared. Good for a year and cost over $2K. Assholes

I take it I have no chance to get a Class III or SBR stamp here in San Jose?

 

[morthrane]

I take it I have no chance to get a Class III or SBR stamp here in San Jose?

If you contribute enough money to the satan clara county sheriff's election campaign... you might get a CCW.

 

[Asphaultnaut]

If you contribute enough money to the satan clara county sheriff's election campaign... you might get a CCW.

I could contribute a lot less to the V.S.T. and get not only the local "permit" but the weapon as well

 

[RockyMt]

At least you guys have options. I know the Sherriff of San Francisco himself and I ain't getting even a quick consideration for a permit.

Mikarimi is such a cunt, they won't even let HIM carry a gun in S.F.!

Wife's Black Eye.

 

[}Dragon{]

At least you guys have options. I know the Sherriff of San Francisco himself and I ain't getting even a quick consideration for a permit.

I worked with the former Sheriff of your county's son and I have met Sheriff Hennesy. I'd say I 'd have very little chance of a CCW in either county.

When I lived in the bay area, I could truly justify a CCW. Now that I'm far and removed from there, even though I live in a shall issue county, I can justify a request for a permit, but I don't think it's worth the time and $$$.

A year ago I was involved in an incident where I stepped out of a business with a side arm (OCL) to assist a Deputy in detaining two armed suspects.

I did not draw my weapon.

His supervisor admonished me, that, even though I was on private property, I could have been shot and the driveway/parking lot is considered public.

In front of about 4 SO Deputies, I said to the Sergeant, when was the last time you got a call for a "White Male with a gun" in this neighborhood?

The SO did a search warrant on the teenage suspects hut and recovered two stolen firearms, drugs and other stolen property from the place they were squatting in.

So, If I apply for my CCW- that could ding me. Oh well- so much for doing the right thing.

 

[bojangle]

Illegal CC is a wobbler. The general rule-- as one lawyer confirmed to me-- is that if the gun is registered to the person carrying it, chances are it will be charged as a misdemeanor on first offense. Unregistered/stolen/etc., felony charge.

Being a wobbler though, I'm not sure what's to stop a vindictive DA from pursuing a felony charge, registered or not.

If you look at 25400(a) PC and 25850(a) PC they outline very specific circumstances when a felony can be charged. Absent those specific circumstances it is only a misdemeanor.

 

[morthrane]

If you look at 25400(a) PC and 25850(a) PC they outline very specific circumstances when a felony can be charged. Absent those specific circumstances it is only a misdemeanor.

I hear ya-- yes, I've read both-- but there's the rule of law and the spirit of the DA. Having been charged with a misdemeanor when legal by seven different statutes and regulations, I guess I'm a bit of a cynic when it comes to the courts.

Check out 25400(c)(6):

(6) If both of the following conditions are met, by imprisonment
pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170, or by imprisonment in a
county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment:
(A) The pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person is loaded, or both it and the unexpended
ammunition capable of being discharged from it are in the immediate
possession of the person or readily accessible to that person.
(B) The person is not listed with the Department of Justice
pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (c) of Section 11106 as the
registered owner of that pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.

There are two different imprisonments bolded, the latter is the misdemeanor punishment if I'm not mistaken. This is the wobbler I was referring to in my original post, as "concealable weapon" is pretty damned broad. Were I to get caught with my unregistered black powder pistol or an unregistered sub-26" OAL AR pistol while "concealed", I've little doubt that I'd get charged with a felony based on 25400(c)(6).

See the reference to 1170(h):

(h) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (3), a felony punishable
pursuant to this subdivision where the term is not specified in the
underlying offense shall be punishable by a term of imprisonment in a
county jail for 16 months, or two or three years.
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (3), a felony punishable
pursuant to this subdivision shall be punishable by imprisonment in a
county jail for the term described in the underlying offense.
(3) Notwithstanding paragraphs (1) and (2), where the defendant
(A) has a prior or current felony conviction for a serious felony
described in subdivision (c) of Section 1192.7 or a prior or current
conviction for a violent felony described in subdivision (c) of
Section 667.5, (B) has a prior felony conviction in another
jurisdiction for an offense that has all the elements of a serious
felony described in subdivision (c) of Section 1192.7 or a violent
felony described in subdivision (c) of Section 667.5, (C) is required
to register as a sex offender pursuant to Chapter 5.5 (commencing
with Section 290) of Title 9 of Part 1, or (D) is convicted of a
crime and as part of the sentence an enhancement pursuant to Section
186.11 is imposed, an executed sentence for a felony punishable
pursuant to this subdivision shall be served in state prison.
(4) Nothing in this subdivision shall be construed to prevent
other dispositions authorized by law, including pretrial diversion,
deferred entry of judgment, or an order granting probation pursuant
to Section 1203.1.
(5) The court, when imposing a sentence pursuant to paragraph (1)
or (2) of this subdivision, may commit the defendant to county jail
as follows:
(A) For a full term in custody as determined in accordance with
the applicable sentencing law.
(B) (i) For a term as determined in accordance with the applicable
sentencing law, but suspend execution of a concluding portion of the
term selected in the court's discretion, during which time the
defendant shall be supervised by the county probation officer in
accordance with the terms, conditions, and procedures generally
applicable to persons placed on probation, for the remaining unserved
portion of the sentence imposed by the court. The period of
supervision shall be mandatory, and may not be earlier terminated
except by court order. Any proceeding to revoke or modify mandatory
supervision under this subparagraph shall be conducted pursuant to
either subdivisions (a) and (b) of Section 1203.2 or Section 1203.3.
During the period when the defendant is under such supervision,
unless in actual custody related to the sentence imposed by the
court, the defendant shall be entitled to only actual time credit
against the term of imprisonment imposed by the court. Any time
period which is suspended because a person has absconded shall not be
credited toward the period of supervision.
(ii) The portion of a defendant's sentenced term during which time
he or she is supervised by the county probation officer pursuant to
this subparagraph shall be known as mandatory supervision, and shall
begin upon release from custody.
(6) The sentencing changes made by the act that added this
subdivision shall be applied prospectively to any person sentenced on
or after October 1, 2011.
(i) This section shall become operative on January 1, 2014.

 

[bojangle]

I hear ya-- yes, I've read both-- but there's the rule of law and the spirit of the DA. Having been charged with a misdemeanor when legal by seven different statutes and regulations, I guess I'm a bit of a cynic when it comes to the courts.

Check out 25400(c)(6):

There are two different imprisonments bolded, the latter is the misdemeanor punishment if I'm not mistaken. This is the wobbler I was referring to in my original post, as "concealable weapon" is pretty damned broad. Were I to get caught with my unregistered black powder pistol or an unregistered sub-26" OAL AR pistol while "concealed", I've little doubt that I'd get charged with a felony based on 25400(c)(6).

See the reference to 1170(h):

Hey, that's actually good to know...concealed and not registered to the person + loaded or ammo in immediate possession = felony. I'll have to keep that one in mind.

I'm well aware of 1170. It was created with this realignment bs a few years ago. The state can no longer afford to send all convicted felons to prison so they created 1170. Certain crimes that used to say state prison as a possible sentence now say 1170. They are still felonies but you can't go to prison for them. You can do county jail time and supervised release by county probation, even though it is not probation.

 

[Asphaultnaut]

how come so many of the arrests of suspected and known gang members, upon finding them in possession of a illegally concealed weapon, do not punish them as hard as the overzealous arrests made by stalking citizens leaving the gun ranges?

I watched a "kid" getting searched after being accused of something to do with stealing a bicycle from someone else at knifepoint. On the hood of the cruiser are aforementioned long knife that was in a sheath with lots of shoelaces to secure it out of sight , plumbing parts suspiciously resembling a pipe, and various other implementia. Punk iwas back on the street standing with the same crew under the same street less than 48 hours later, where he could be found almost every afternoon the weather was decent for the next year and a half.

The we have that case were Harris took some wastoid who had pounds of weed in his trunk, an illegally possessed and stored firearm in his possession, and gives the guy "rehab" until he murders some woman he met at a club.

If any of us law abiding, tax paying, non-affiliated people were caught with a loaded weapon laying on the floor of our vehicle, even if it were registered properly, do you think we'd be offered "rehab"?

all these gun transport laws were sold to the public as "tools" to nab "the bad guys", to make sure the gangsters who finished a driveby and were caught with a half loaded weapon tossed into the backseat could be arrested. But time and again, even after these arrests are made, politically blinded prosecutors or bleeding hearts let the criminals off with the lightest sentence possible and do everything they can to ignore the easy conviction.

But almost every 2A activist personally knows (or has been) the person run through the ringer as some officer tries to say his granddad's M1 Garand is an assault rifle or has to deal with a traffic stop after the range to demonstrate his handgun is triple locked, unloaded, ammo separate and locket, etc. while on the road. Heaven help the guy who didn't diligently handle his CA transport regulations.

But there will be another firearm ownership-prohibited gangster or two who will get some misdemeanor possession charge for dope instead of the penalty for his mexican imported, Chinese AK with the folding stock, 30 round mags and no bullet lock.

I guess we all have become the "bad guys" except the ones who are actually using their firearms in felonious matters.

 

[RRR70]

I've been pulled over few times leaving the range. The first question? "Do you have any firearms in your vehicle". Not " I pulled you over for ______." Is that why you pulled me over? Well, you know what ocifer? Fuck you.

 

[planegray]

how come so many of the arrests of suspected and known gang members, upon finding them in possession of a illegally concealed weapon, do not punish them as hard as the overzealous arrests made by stalking citizens leaving the gun ranges?

I watched a "kid" getting searched after being accused of something to do with stealing a bicycle from someone else at knifepoint. On the hood of the cruiser are aforementioned long knife that was in a sheath with lots of shoelaces to secure it out of sight , plumbing parts suspiciously resembling a pipe, and various other implementia. Punk iwas back on the street standing with the same crew under the same street less than 48 hours later, where he could be found almost every afternoon the weather was decent for the next year and a half.

The we have that case were Harris took some wastoid who had pounds of weed in his trunk, an illegally possessed and stored firearm in his possession, and gives the guy "rehab" until he murders some woman he met at a club.

If any of us law abiding, tax paying, non-affiliated people were caught with a loaded weapon laying on the floor of our vehicle, even if it were registered properly, do you think we'd be offered "rehab"?

all these gun transport laws were sold to the public as "tools" to nab "the bad guys", to make sure the gangsters who finished a driveby and were caught with a half loaded weapon tossed into the backseat could be arrested. But time and again, even after these arrests are made, politically blinded prosecutors or bleeding hearts let the criminals off with the lightest sentence possible and do everything they can to ignore the easy conviction.

But almost every 2A activist personally knows (or has been) the person run through the ringer as some officer tries to say his granddad's M1 Garand is an assault rifle or has to deal with a traffic stop after the range to demonstrate his handgun is triple locked, unloaded, ammo separate and locket, etc. while on the road. Heaven help the guy who didn't diligently handle his CA transport regulations.

But there will be another firearm ownership-prohibited gangster or two who will get some misdemeanor possession charge for dope instead of the penalty for his mexican imported, Chinese AK with the folding stock, 30 round mags and no bullet lock.

I guess we all have become the "bad guys" except the ones who are actually using their firearms in felonious matters.

I could be mistaken, but I assume that District attorneys need to show that they are willing to prosecute middle class citizens, and are not profiling in their job

 

[m_asim]

If you look at 25400(a) PC and 25850(a) PC they outline very specific circumstances when a felony can be charged. Absent those specific circumstances it is only a misdemeanor.

PC never stopped a DA, with a hard on against someone, from throwing the book and the kitchen sink at them.

 

[Asphaultnaut]

I could be mistaken, but I assume that District attorneys need to show that they are willing to prosecute middle class citizens, and are not profiling in their job

wouldn't profiling be on the part of the arresting officer? a DA is supposed to be considering the case. An officer making sure to pull over a nice diverse culture could be worrying about profiling but a DA needs to work with the charges of the case regardless, I'd assume.

Otherwise, the disturbing lack of firearms charges where applicable would show a clear case of some profiling going on. Especially if most of those being challenged are thrown out.

I just don't get why you'd want a guy walking practicaly free who you can't nab for murder because you can't prove which of the three hermanos in the car actually pulled the trigger, but won't nab them on the clear felonious weapon possession. fingerprints on the weapon, for someone with a felony record, and a weapon not in compliance is enough to stick em behind bars for awhile. Only getting them on the dope in their daytrip bag seems like another type of profiling to me.

 

[sanjuro]

how come so many of the arrests of suspected and known gang members, upon finding them in possession of a illegally concealed weapon, do not punish them as hard as the overzealous arrests made by stalking citizens leaving the gun ranges?

I watched a "kid" getting searched after being accused of something to do with stealing a bicycle from someone else at knifepoint. On the hood of the cruiser are aforementioned long knife that was in a sheath with lots of shoelaces to secure it out of sight , plumbing parts suspiciously resembling a pipe, and various other implementia. Punk iwas back on the street standing with the same crew under the same street less than 48 hours later, where he could be found almost every afternoon the weather was decent for the next year and a half.

The we have that case were Harris took some wastoid who had pounds of weed in his trunk, an illegally possessed and stored firearm in his possession, and gives the guy "rehab" until he murders some woman he met at a club.

If any of us law abiding, tax paying, non-affiliated people were caught with a loaded weapon laying on the floor of our vehicle, even if it were registered properly, do you think we'd be offered "rehab"?

all these gun transport laws were sold to the public as "tools" to nab "the bad guys", to make sure the gangsters who finished a driveby and were caught with a half loaded weapon tossed into the backseat could be arrested. But time and again, even after these arrests are made, politically blinded prosecutors or bleeding hearts let the criminals off with the lightest sentence possible and do everything they can to ignore the easy conviction.

But almost every 2A activist personally knows (or has been) the person run through the ringer as some officer tries to say his granddad's M1 Garand is an assault rifle or has to deal with a traffic stop after the range to demonstrate his handgun is triple locked, unloaded, ammo separate and locket, etc. while on the road. Heaven help the guy who didn't diligently handle his CA transport regulations.

But there will be another firearm ownership-prohibited gangster or two who will get some misdemeanor possession charge for dope instead of the penalty for his mexican imported, Chinese AK with the folding stock, 30 round mags and no bullet lock.

I guess we all have become the "bad guys" except the ones who are actually using their firearms in felonious matters.

A San Jose resident stole a carbon $8000 mountain bike from a rental shop in Sierra County, and was caught and convicted.

If this bike was stolen in SJ, what would his sentence been? A few weeks? Probation?

He did a year in the vacant Sierra County jail.

It matters very much where you get stopped. I'm sure if had a bolt action on a truck rack in Siskiyou, it may not get many glances, but I would get a full search in Alameda.

 

[Eldritch]

A San Jose resident stole a carbon $8000 mountain bike from a rental shop in Sierra County, and was caught and convicted.

If this bike was stolen in SJ, what would his sentence been? A few weeks? Probation?

He did a year in the vacant Sierra County jail.

It matters very much where you get stopped. I'm sure if had a bolt action on a truck rack in Siskiyou, it may not get many glances, but I would get a full cavity search in Alameda.

fixed.

 

[morthrane]

I'm well aware of 1170. It was created with this realignment bs a few years ago. The state can no longer afford to send all convicted felons to prison so they created 1170. Certain crimes that used to say state prison as a possible sentence now say 1170. They are still felonies but you can't go to prison for them. You can do county jail time and supervised release by county probation, even though it is not probation.

Although I knew about that stupid PC reorganization-- reminds me of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic-- I didn't know about 1170.

Overall, strikes me as a near criminal abuse of the felony charge. Major judicial overreach.

Guess I shouldn't be surprised, especially with misdemeanors now being targeted for enhanced Nazi penalties.

I could be mistaken, but I assume that District attorneys need to show that they are willing to prosecute middle class citizens, and are not profiling in their job

I seriously doubt it has anything to do with that. DAs go after easy targets, as losses on their record adversely affect their career ambitions. And the middle class is the easiest victim out there: criminals educate themselves and naturally won't say shit to the police, and the rich can afford to insulate themselves with high cost and highly connected lawyers.

PC never stopped a DA, with a hard on against someone, from throwing the book and the kitchen sink at them.

Yeah, they're thugs. :|

 

[bojangle]

how come so many of the arrests of suspected and known gang members, upon finding them in possession of a illegally concealed weapon, do not punish them as hard as the overzealous arrests made by stalking citizens leaving the gun ranges?

I watched a "kid" getting searched after being accused of something to do with stealing a bicycle from someone else at knifepoint. On the hood of the cruiser are aforementioned long knife that was in a sheath with lots of shoelaces to secure it out of sight , plumbing parts suspiciously resembling a pipe, and various other implementia. Punk iwas back on the street standing with the same crew under the same street less than 48 hours later, where he could be found almost every afternoon the weather was decent for the next year and a half.

The we have that case were Harris took some wastoid who had pounds of weed in his trunk, an illegally possessed and stored firearm in his possession, and gives the guy "rehab" until he murders some woman he met at a club.

If any of us law abiding, tax paying, non-affiliated people were caught with a loaded weapon laying on the floor of our vehicle, even if it were registered properly, do you think we'd be offered "rehab"?

all these gun transport laws were sold to the public as "tools" to nab "the bad guys", to make sure the gangsters who finished a driveby and were caught with a half loaded weapon tossed into the backseat could be arrested. But time and again, even after these arrests are made, politically blinded prosecutors or bleeding hearts let the criminals off with the lightest sentence possible and do everything they can to ignore the easy conviction.

But almost every 2A activist personally knows (or has been) the person run through the ringer as some officer tries to say his granddad's M1 Garand is an assault rifle or has to deal with a traffic stop after the range to demonstrate his handgun is triple locked, unloaded, ammo separate and locket, etc. while on the road. Heaven help the guy who didn't diligently handle his CA transport regulations.

But there will be another firearm ownership-prohibited gangster or two who will get some misdemeanor possession charge for dope instead of the penalty for his mexican imported, Chinese AK with the folding stock, 30 round mags and no bullet lock.

I guess we all have become the "bad guys" except the ones who are actually using their firearms in felonious matters.

That's generally called bail...ya know, that pesky right (almost) everyone gets when arrested for a crime...innocent until proven guilty and all. Our civil liberties are the very reason that criminals have more rights than victims. Just because you saw some punk 48 hours after he was arrested for weapons possession in no way is an indication of what charges he faces or will get convinced of.

As for the rest of your post, that's an interesting perception you have. It's not at all like the reality I experience doing the job over the years. While it could be the case in some areas, I'd say it's not very reflective of reality. We constantly deal with the same people and types of people getting arrested and going through the system, and they aren't usually these so called "middle class" people. Gangsters with guns can be charged with a gang enhancement and have the potential of serving far more time for the same crime than someone else. Yeah, some DAs are better than others. Yeah, DAs like slam dunk cases and sometimes dismiss good cases because they have to work a little more. Cases are usually settled by plea bargains, so naturally some charges are usually dropped in exchange for guilty pleas on others with reduced sentences. I'm sometimes frustrated at what DAs do with cases. The rule of thumb is that police usually arrest for all applicable charges and the DAs usually reduce them from there. Having said all that, I certainly haven't seen a pattern of police or DAs going after "easy target middle class people" over the repeat career criminals. I've seen just the opposite. Don't believe the hype.

Although I knew about that stupid PC reorganization-- reminds me of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic-- I didn't know about 1170.

Overall, strikes me as a near criminal abuse of the felony charge. Major judicial overreach.

Guess I shouldn't be surprised, especially with misdemeanors now being targeted for enhanced Nazi penalties.


I seriously doubt it has anything to do with that. DAs go after easy targets, as losses on their record adversely affect their career ambitions. And the middle class is the easiest victim out there: criminals educate themselves and naturally won't say shit to the police, and the rich can afford to insulate themselves with high cost and highly connected lawyers.


Yeah, they're thugs. :|

For the most part, 1170 is a soft on crime approach. It made certain crimes which were already felonies no longer eligible for state prison. At the same time, and as far as I know unrelated to realignment, California also completely overhauled the weapons violations sections in the penal code, making them more complicated, and in some cases, adding enhanced crimes such as the additional felony charges for firearms related possession crimes. In other cases, they changed weapons violations previously wobblers under 12020(a) PC to straight misdemeanors, such as possession of metal/ acrylic knuckles.

So it's certainly not the case that 1170 was written as an overreaching abuse of the felony charge. It was exactly the opposite and part of the realignment movement in the state responsible for releasing scores of non violent criminals from the prisons. The only thing overreaching is the gun laws themselves. But I think we both agree that is a major problem, especially in California.