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Cornering and going wide

flying_hun said:
Pulling on the inside grip? That's the opposite of counter steering.
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I think both apply. I will often push the inside bar to initiate the turn and outside bar to hold my line because it is easier to control the lean.
So for me it is a combo thing.
 
flying_hun said:
Pulling on the inside grip? That's the opposite of counter steering.
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How do you figure that? Push the outside or pull the inside both do exactly the same thing. Before I had ever heard the term "countersteer" I'm pretty sure I did more pulling of the inside than pushing of the outside.
 
Well, assuming "inside" is the direction of the turn, so if I'm going right, then inside is the right hand bar, then that's where you want to push, not pull. Pushing the right bar makes the wheel go left, thus the "counter" part of "counter steering".

While, indeed, pulling one grip and pushing the other are the same thing, which grip is being pushed/pulled matters in context.

If "inside" means something different, then, well, it's different.
 
ST Guy said:
You can also initiate a turn by pulling on the inside bar. Or push on the outside bar AND pull on the inside bar.
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Timism: words matter.
When I read 'initiate a turn' I visualize a motorcycle NOT turning yet, and traveling in a straight line. In that scenario, if the rider pulls on a bar to initiate the turn, the bar they are pulling on instantly becomes the outside bar.

Pushing on one side and / or pulling on the other side will certainly cause a directional change and while many seasoned riders will experiment with control inputs as we ride, I’m of the opinion that communication is easier if we use standardized terms. This is especially important with riders that are unfamiliar with the actions and words related to counter-steering.

It has been my experience that “push right = go right”, and “push left = go left” are the best words to use when teaching / coaching people to perform and understand counter-steering. The action equals the result: right = right.
 
berth said:
Well, assuming "inside" is the direction of the turn, so if I'm going right, then inside is the right hand bar, then that's where you want to push, not pull. Pushing the right bar makes the wheel go left, thus the "counter" part of "counter steering".

While, indeed, pulling one grip and pushing the other are the same thing, which grip is being pushed/pulled matters in context.

If "inside" means something different, then, well, it's different.
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Pulling on the inside grip (e.g., right grip for a right turn) will make the bike stand up.
 
In scanning this, I automatically default to poor visual technique as the culprit. Properly looking through the corner facilitates the rest of it naturally falling into place. If I think back on my fuck-ups, crashes, and close calls on the bike (both on the pavement and off), I can point to 1. Inattention and 2. Poor Visual technique as the leading contributors.
 
Motor_Bay said:
I had a similar issue a few months ago — running wide even while adding lean and rolling on the throttle. What helped me understand what was happening was learning more about how speed + vision + body position affect cornering lines.
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FWIW, adding lean angle + throttle is generally not beneficial to traction. Beast practice is to reduce lean angle while adding throttle. If one is worried about running wide in a corner, reducing speed is the most common solution. Every rider can benefit from mastering trail braking. This is probably one of the most valuable, if not the most valuable skillset to learn in riding, IME.
 
Oops….i made a mistake in my post. Post has been corrected.

If you want to make a left turn, you can either push on the left bar (normal method) or pull the right bar back. Or you can do both. Either way works. And of course, pushing is easier than pulling.

This can be more difficult with sport bikes because more of your weight is on the bars. But it works fine. It’s also the method that one armed riders use.
 
stratslingr77 said:
In scanning this, I automatically default to poor visual technique as the culprit. Properly looking through the corner facilitates the rest of it naturally falling into place. If I think back on my fuck-ups, crashes, and close calls on the bike (both on the pavement and off), I can point to 1. Inattention and 2. Poor Visual technique as the leading contributors.
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Agreed. Looking at the right thing at the right time is super important - our vision is what gives us most of the information we need to stay on line.
 
I envision a helmet / glasses that watch where you are looking and gives instant feedback when your vision veers off line. That would bring people up to speed pretty quick.
 
Das MotorRad said:
I envision a helmet / glasses that watch where you are looking and gives instant feedback when your vision veers off line. That would bring people up to speed pretty quick.
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Not a fan of that. My eyes are always moving and some times, are looking away from intended direction of travel to see where intersections with other vehicles may occur, etc. This is in higher use in a track environment for me, given the velocity differences from street riding.
 
Holeshot said:
Not a fan of that. My eyes are always moving and some times, are looking away from intended direction of travel to see where intersections with other vehicles may occur, etc. This is in higher use in a track environment for me, given the velocity differences from street riding.
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Good points! There is definitely a different focus when riding track vs. street.
 
Holeshot said:
Not a fan of that. My eyes are always moving and some times, are looking away from intended direction of travel to see where intersections with other vehicles may occur, etc. This is in higher use in a track environment for me, given the velocity differences from street riding.
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I would also not be a fan. It would be a big distraction for me, increasing my chances of blowing it.

Same goes for that fancy helmet with the heads up display. It’s a huge distraction.
 
Agree on the HUD being a distraction, especially the focus close/ focus far part. I don't find HUD's in modern autos all that helpful, but probably because I haven't trained myself to use them much. Still same issues persist wrt moto HUDs, IMO.
 
I absolutely love HUD's and look forward to using one on a motorcycle. I've recently spoken with a founder of Ciye about their technology, and potential application in motorsports. I'm told that it's on the horizon as glasses / goggles.
 
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The one in the vid is cool for track action to help analyze where the eyes are going and when. Code guys have always been using some sort of tech or drill that nobody else uses and then figuring out how to make it useful in their training.

Be really interesting to just see a visual of where the riders eyes are going when riding on the street without the HUD being present.
 
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