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Dave Chappelle

jdhu said:
It's funny. Neither of us know the details of what led to the employee's suspension (something I acknowledged and which you reiterated), but here, you are assuming NFLX suspended her merely for being "outspoken." You have no idea what she did.

The power dynamic makes no sense to me. You are saying that to qualify as cancel culture, the "canceller" must have power over the cancelled? In other words, someone or some group you perceive as disempowered cannot, by definition, cancel a different group?

Is it fair to say that Ann Coulter at UCB, in your view, has the power of conservative backing and money, and whatever power dynamic as a white person, and therefore, only someone with even more power can truly cancel her? What?

Protesting is of course protected, and great! If someone wants to protest Ann Coulter, do so by all means. Don't prevent her from speaking or prevent others from attending (that has now gone beyond speech), don't destroy her audio equipment, etc. The well-meaning and too-common notion (especially here) that "some speech is just to hateful to allow" is an obvious form of cancel culture.
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On the Netflix thing. I initially said that Netflix probably would have said more about it if the details made her suspension seem more justifiable. To be very clear on my thoughts on it. I think that the most likely scenario is that Netflix is using the meeting thing as justification for taking action against an employee who spoke out publicly about their problems with the Netflix special.

The power dynamic is pretty simple. If one random person showed up trying to stop Coulter's event from happening, they would have almost no ability to do so.

If a few hundred to a few thousand show up, they probably can prevent people from going in, or otherwise prevent the show from going on. There is power in numbers.

However, going back to our example of one person, if instead of one random person, it was someone who was able to control the schedule for campus activities, they could stop that in it's tracks easily. This specific dynamic happened to Ana Kasparian multiple times around the same time that Coulter's event was protested.
 
JesasaurusRex said:
Nobody does it better. Missing out if you haven't seen it yet. *Surprised nobody made a thread.
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He's the best of the modern era for sure.
*There was probably no thread because people were still yelling at the sky.
 
TylerW said:
I guess at my age I still let myself be surprised at how awful they can be.

I'm not sure if the below quoted is part of that segment,

but it seems to me that he thinks that everyone is on their own fight - and while that's fundamentally true he seems to think that a black trans woman should decide if she's black, or if she's trans before she asks him for help in that fight.

And while intersectionality isn't for everyone, it certainly doesn't seem to be for him. And if he wants to believe that as a straight cis black man he's at the bottom of the social pecking order he's gonna be pissing a lot of people off.
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Yeah, I reckon at a certain point in life though you have to recognize that you're making a specific choice and then why bother to ask the question, you know?

I really don't have any kind of dog in the fight, but yes, that quoted bit was a small part of it, he seems to be taking the position that there are two social justice struggles, Black and LGBTQ, that LGBTQ is gaining more progress faster than the Black struggle (which is technically absurd), therefore those participating in the Black struggle, who he feels are the most disadvantaged group, can only punch up as they are at the bottom.

That is a quick paraphrase, but he doesn't seem particularly hateful or hostile towards any other group or struggle.

HappyHighwayman said:
I think Chappelle's Show was funny but I don't respect him like I used to. He does punch down.

You'd thinks someone who was a minority, who CHOSE TO CONVERT TO ISLAM, would have more compassion.
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I don't know, his job as a comedian is to clown people, he does that and everyone is fair game. Every single thing I have ever heard about the dude seems to suggest to me that he treats everyone with a significant amounts of caring and compassion as best as a normal dude can in normal interaction with his community. I know PistolPete used to run into him doing research for his material in downtown SF back in the day and he seemed to think dude was real decent.

I know during the pandemic he did a lot for his town as it was getting hammered by COVID.
 
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This thread is too long but I did see the clip about Kaitlyn Jenner that has a lot of people in a bind. He started saying that Kaitlyn is a nice person but for ESPN to give her the 2015 Woman of the Year award didn't make sense as there a lot of other women who had done a lot more in the past year than Kaitlyn who has been a woman for one year at point in time.

Is he right or wrong?

The way I see it, Chappelle is pointing to what Bob Costas called "crass exploitation play".
 
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m_asim said:
This thread is too long but I did see the clip about Kaitlyn Jenner that has a lot of people in a bind. He started saying that Kaitlyn is a nice person but for ESPN to give her the 2015 Woman of the Year award didn't make sense as there a lot of other women who had done a lot more in the past year than Kaitlyn who has been a woman for one year at point in time.

Is he right or wrong?

The way I see it, Chappelle is pointing to what Bob Costas called "crass exploitation play".
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lol and that's why he's so great
i don't know enough about the ESPN awards to formulate an educated opinion but on its face i'd say Dave certainly made a compelling argument...AAAAaaaaand it was funny at the same time.
 
Eldritch said:
Yeah, I reckon at a certain point in life though you have to recognize that you're making a specific choice and then why bother to ask the question, you know?

I really don't have any kind of dog in the fight, but yes, that quoted bit was a small part of it, he seems to be taking the position that there are two social justice struggles, Black and LGBTQ, that LGBTQ is gaining more progress faster than the Black struggle (which is technically absurd), therefore those participating in the Black struggle, who he feels are the most disadvantaged group, can only punch up as they are at the bottom.
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At the end of his skit when he said something along the lines of "stop punching down on my people", i took it to mean comedians, not black people. Now i'm not so sure anymore. I'm probably going to watch this special again and see if I have any change of thoughts.
 
JesasaurusRex said:
At the end of his skit when he said something along the lines of "stop punching down on my people", i took it to mean comedians, not black people. Now i'm not so sure anymore. I'm probably going to watch this special again and see if I have any change of thoughts.
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Yeah, remember he was also talking about Da Baby and Kevin Hart in the same shit.
 
m_asim said:
This thread is too long but I did see the clip about Kaitlyn Jenner that has a lot of people in a bind. He started saying that Kaitlyn is a nice person but for ESPN to give her the 2015 Woman of the Year award didn't make sense as there a lot of other women who had done a lot more in the past year than Kaitlyn who has been a woman for one year at point in time.

Is he right or wrong?

The way I see it, Chappelle is pointing to what Bob Costas called "crass exploitation play".
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I'll never know how hard it is to transition and I reckon you won't either. From the stories I've heard, it's harder than any decision I've ever had to make.

ESPN thought it was a significant enough achievement and worth celebrating. It's not your network, if you disagree you disagree, but it's not your network.
 
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TylerW said:
I'll never know how hard it is to transition and I reckon you won't either. From the stories I've heard, it's harder than any decision I've ever had to make.
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He didn't disagree.
 
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mrzuzzo said:
Trans activists are more annoying than vegans.
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People resisting removal of systemic inequality for minorities are more annoying than vegans, crossfitters, P90Xers, evangelicals, Karens, and you, combined.
 
cheez said:
People resisting removal of systemic inequality for minorities are more annoying than vegans, crossfitters, P90Xers, evangelicals, Karens, and you, combined.
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Uhm no. They are trying to cancel a comedian over his opinion? It's annoying. That's my issue. I admire those actually fighting inequality but this seems like the wrong hill to die on. Again, IMO.
 
mrzuzzo said:
Uhm no. They are trying to cancel a comedian over his opinion? It's annoying. That's my issue. I admire those actually fighting inequality but this seems like the wrong hill to die on. Again, IMO.
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I don't think anybody except Dave chose this hill to die on. ;)

He could have said nothing and avoided further drama. He chose to voice his perspective, damn the torpedos, full speed ahead- whether or not he understood the issue.

Like I said earlier, it's a conflict between "he wasn't punching down, he was punching lines" and "I'm Team TERF"- if it was A) he could have said so, been reasonably contrite and apologetic for having previously been insensitive in his comedy, reiterated that, etc. He chose not to- he chose B) to double down on his exclusionary, hurtful, scientifically inaccurate views, and it put him on the wrong side of history.

His assumption that "because I am one type of oppressed minority, I cannot contribute to the oppression of a different type of minority" is bullshit and ignores intersectionality altogether in favor of "because I have been tyrannized, I can freely be a tyrant." He just either doesn't realize, or doesn't care, about the harms his views are actively causing. That's where the wrong enters into it.
 
ScarySpikes said:
On the Netflix thing. I initially said that Netflix probably would have said more about it if the details made her suspension seem more justifiable. To be very clear on my thoughts on it. I think that the most likely scenario is that Netflix is using the meeting thing as justification for taking action against an employee who spoke out publicly about their problems with the Netflix special.

The power dynamic is pretty simple. If one random person showed up trying to stop Coulter's event from happening, they would have almost no ability to do so.

If a few hundred to a few thousand show up, they probably can prevent people from going in, or otherwise prevent the show from going on. There is power in numbers.

However, going back to our example of one person, if instead of one random person, it was someone who was able to control the schedule for campus activities, they could stop that in it's tracks easily. This specific dynamic happened to Ana Kasparian multiple times around the same time that Coulter's event was protested.
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https://variety.com/2021/film/news/dave-chappelle-netflix-suspends-trans-employee-1235086394/

Three employees suspended, only one of whom tweeted about Chappelle. Neither of us know all the details, but only one of us is making assumptions to suit our viewpoint...:laughing:twofinger

The rest, I don't understand. I suppose I don't care too much, but if you choose to answer, do you consider attempts to physically prevent someone from speaking, to prevent people from attending that speech, to disrupt the speech via unauthorized entrance into a permitted/authorized area, the pulling of speaker cables, etc., to be mere protest or cancellation?

When you say that a mass group of people have "power in numbers," are you saying you support the ability of massed people to disrupt a speech, presentation, etc.?
 
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